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Sound Files Of Baritone English


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What about investing in an international phone call to Mr Morse and talking to him about it. (He'll probably play it down the 'phone.)

Telephone bandwith is so small, you can't hear anything (I once got a music store in the States to play an old Gibson guitar down the phone - you could barely hear it was a stringed instrument!).

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As for duplicate accidentals: As long as all the notes are there at least once, I don't think a beginner who has never experienced the duplications will feel that anything is "missing".

Yes, I'm quite happy to have only one of each note at the moment. I play jazz, so I'm used to enharmonic spellings, and I can choose what key to play anything in (I just have to transpose the chart for the bass player).

But graduating from a Jack(ie) to something with more notes -- either the duplications or a greater range -- will present new possibilities, which can be quite exciting. :)

Indeed, I'm finding the EC note layout itself is opening up exciting possibilities. Mistakes often produce interesting chords that I'd never have come up with on the guitar. With everything so closer together and adjacent notes on opposite sounds, I'm enjoying the ability to build up note clusters with a bell-like effect. Interestingly they don't sound muddy in the baritone range, just rich and full.

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What about investing in an international phone call to Mr Morse and talking to him about it. (He'll probably play it down the 'phone.)

Phone the Button Box, maybe. I don't think Rich is near the phone all that much. He does things other than run the shop.

 

I do think, though, that it would be to their advantage to have some examples on the Button Box web site of the Albion and Ceili actually being played. Maybe they could get some of the instructors at the next Northeast Concertina Workshop to record a few bits for them on Morse instruments?

 

Telephone bandwith is so small, you can't hear anything (I once got a music store in the States to play an old Gibson guitar down the phone - you could barely hear it was a stringed instrument!).

Maybe that used to be true, but is it still? Transmission quality may be inconsistent, but a lot is now digital, and I don't think it's uniformly atrocious.

 

Many years ago when I did transmission testing for the phone company, I was told that only the range of 1000-3000 Hz was important, because that's all that was important to understanding speech. But when Polly phoned me -- from Oregon to Denmark -- to listen to the bass-baritone she was looking at, the tone/timbre was quite clear and quite clearly different from an ordinary concertina... if I hadn't know it was a concertina, I would have thought it was a bassoon.

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Eh? The ends of the Jack/Jackie are larger across, to be sure, but my understanding is that the Jack(ie) and the Albion both have the same button spacing as Wheatstones, Lachenals, etc. Thus they should be the same in that respect. No?

 

I don't know about Wheatstones, Lachenals, etc., but Morse Albion's buttons spacing is tighter than of the Jackie. It does present some inconviniencies in comparison, esp. when finger 4 note chords, like Gmaj7.

Many other variations are possible with practice on the Jackie and pretty much impractical on Albion.

If I had smaller hands, it would be the other way around. Or if I had bigger hands, so playing two buttons with one finger would be easier. But I'm sort of in the middle, and Jackie's spacing feels more comfortable. May be it's just Morse's buttons are closer than the standard?

Edited by m3838
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Eh? The ends of the Jack/Jackie are larger across, to be sure, but my understanding is that the Jack(ie) and the Albion both have the same button spacing as Wheatstones, Lachenals, etc. Thus they should be the same in that respect. No?

Well it's close, the button diameter on the Jack is exactly the same as my Wheatstone, the horizontal rows of buttons are exactly the same spacing apart but buttons on the same row i.e. C G D A are 0.4 to 0.45mm further apart on the Jack; it's not a lot of difference but I too notice that the Wheatstone feels more cramped after playing the Jack. I rather suspect that the sensitivity of the Wheatstone action makes it seem much tighter, brush a key by accident and you've got a ghost note sounding, the Jack takes a positive press of the key to start sounding.

 

As for duplicate accidentals: As long as all the notes are there at least once, I don't think a beginner who has never experienced the duplications will feel that anything is "missing". But graduating from a Jack(ie) to something with more notes -- either the duplications or a greater range -- will present new possibilities, which can be quite exciting. :)

To be honest it didn't take many weeks before I was missing the top G#, having the Ab on the other hand gets around the problem but as you're learning the English fingering system you expect to find the relevant accidental next to the natural, it just seems a bit odd. Doesn't stop the Jack/ie from being a great starter instrument though.

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I was really suggesting that you speak to Richard M for advice; you're a potential customer after all; he may have something he can email you (or be able to sort something), or he may say 'No, don't have one of mine, they aren't what you want' or he may say. 'I can build you one to do that' Who knows? I'd ask, (or PM him, now I think of it).

 

The concertina world is so small, I've found, that the professionals are all very straightforward and helpful; I tend to trust their opinions, which are always freely and generously given in my experience. If anyone did start ripping people off word would go round so fast...

 

(I also think you can get a surprisingly good idea of what 'box sounds like down the phone, mind you)

 

What sort of Jazz have you got in mind?

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To be honest it didn't take many weeks before I was missing the top G#, having the Ab on the other hand gets around the problem but as you're learning the English fingering system you expect to find the relevant accidental next to the natural, it just seems a bit odd.

But that's just not possible: you'd want both a D# and a Db in order to play B major and Ab major, for instance, but the D key can only have one accidental.

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I was really suggesting that you speak to Richard M for advice

I certainly will, if I find the Jack limiting.

 

What sort of Jazz have you got in mind?

Good question. I just discovered Dino Saluzzi (Ojos Negros & Cite de la Musique) and it was his music that inspired me to have a go on some kind of squeezebox. I had a look at the bandoneon layout and couldn't make head or tail of it, and I'm not keen on the sound of constant parallel octaves, so concertina seemed like more of a viable proposition. I'm finding that melancholy sounds go well on the Jack. At the moment I'm just experimenting, along with learning the layout of course.

 

If I'd been aware of Harry Geuns' student model hybrid bandoneon, with its symmetrical keyboard layout, I might have gone for that in preference, but the Jack was already on its way when I found out about it. I may give it a try as well, as Harry has a single-voice version. Clearly I wouldn't be able to build up such rich clusters on it, but separate melody and accompanying chords would be easier, as would parallel chords and intervals.

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I just realised you are in the Netherlands. If you came to the Bielefeld Concertinatreffen in april you could listen to and try out several Baritones. (And even a chromatic bandonion like the Geuns if you inform me that you will come.)

 

Nils

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But that's just not possible: you'd want both a D# and a Db in order to play B major and Ab major, for instance, but the D key can only have one accidental.

 

I seldom delve into the world of five sharps or four flats but you are right (although in B major you would have D# and C# of course which are both next to the naturals, A# is a different matter and you'd have to go for a Bb). I should have said that the most common accidentals are located next to the naturals and for many of us lesser beings that's all we'll ever need. :D

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I'd be very interested to hear sound files of other baritone ECs than the Jack (which I have, and there are already sound clips of it on the web). Preferably not a piece of music, just all the notes of a scale from bottom to top, so I can compare the tone.

Here's a 1924 Wheatstone 9A, a rosewood-ended 48-key baritone. It could use some work (tuning, a few bum reeds fixed, and probably new valves). I recorded a C scale and a few chords in a small, dead sounding room. I added no processing or reverb. I don't play English, so excuse the stilted playing.

 

http://concertina.JeffLeff.com/audio/CScaleUp.mp3

http://concertina.JeffLeff.com/audio/CScaleDown.mp3

http://concertina.JeffLeff.com/audio/CMajChord.mp3

http://concertina.JeffLeff.com/audio/DMajChord.mp3

http://concertina.JeffLeff.com/audio/GMajChord.mp3

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