Action Box End Replacement Questions

[astrotina]

Hi all,

 

I'm new to the forum having just purchased my first concertina. It's a Lachenal 48 button that's in need of repair.

 

The instrument is #51287 (various estimates as to date from 1886 through 1920's). It has red (varnish.shellac finish)end plates with a canvas dust cover on the inside to which is affixed the Lachenal paper plate on one side and the serial # stamped on the other side. Four folds to the bellows, the bellows look fairly good from the outside, no repairs seen though inspection from the inside with a bright light shows a few holes and breaks in the inside folds. The keys are bone dyed black and red. The action needs adjusting as a couple of the buttons come out of their corresponding holes in the action plate and get stuck while trying to press them in. Other observations may come in time but first things first.

 

I plan to replace all the valves (some are curled badly), replace the pads, sampers etc., adjust the action, fix the bellows and a couple of other things in order to get the instrument working, all the notes sounding.

 

One real question I have is how and whether to replace the wooden ends of the action box. There are quite a number of splits and missing pieces in each side and I'm seriously considering replacing them. The Lachenal also comes with a canvas(?) ring that appears to be there as a filter for dust ect. from getting into the action box. The canvas has many small gray spots (mold/dirt?) and I'm thinking of replacing the canvas. However!! the canvas also has the serial number on one side and the Lachenal paper plate on the other. I think I could probably get the paper plate off but I'm concerned that removing the other side is a bad idea because I'd be removing the serial number from the outside. There are corresponding serial numbers on the inside in a couple of places so anyone opening the instrument would be able to find the serial number even without the original canvas piece.

 

I guess the question is, is this an instrument that should be repaired in an "authentic" manner or does it not matter? I'm assuming it's a tutor model, the "cheapest" design that Lachenal made at the time

 

I'm wondering a number of things about replacement of the end plates.

 

1. What kind of glue was used on these end plates? Usually musical instrument makers would use hide glue which should be fairly easy to deal with (I studies musical instrument making at an earlier stage in my life).

 

2. What kind of wood was used in the "tutor" models? It looks like maple (sycamore) but I'm not sure.

 

3. Is there any real problem with replacing the wooden plate with something a bit more snazzy like Amboyna veneer over maple or something like that? I'm currently thinking that it would be a vast improvement in the looks of the instrument but perhaps it would be better to restore the instrument to its original appearance.

 

4. I'm assuming the finish is probably varnish or shellac. Is this true?

 

5. The holes for the buttons are sized for easy travel of the buttons. If I'm going to make new end plates anyway, would it be better to drill the holes oversize a bit to allow for installing felt bushings for each one? If so, what diameter do I make the holes if the keys are 4.85 mm in diameter?

 

Any suggestions or observations from those who have done this themselves would be greatly appreciated.

 

OH!!! I managed to get the RH side off but found all of the end bolts frozen in with rust. The left is much the same way. Any suggestions as to best way to extract the bolts?

 

Thanks,

 

Ed

[David Helmore]

Hi

 

If you haven't already, buy Dave Elliott's book on concertina repair. Link on amazon below:

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Concertina-Mainten...336&sr=8-12

 

This should get you started! Personlly I wouldn't worry about replacing the ends on this model - the cracks are easily repaired with wood glue and pieces of thin card (using a standard clamp to get the join nice and even). Removing rusty endbolts - I found a 10 second blast with a soldering tool does the trick (gently move screw either way befor going for the full unwind). Have to rush off to a meeting I'm afraid - but do get the book!!!

 

Dave Helmore

[astrotina]

Thanks Dave,

 

Yes, I have a copy of Dave Elliott's book and have been studying what to do about different problems. It's a very helpful book.

 

I am noticing the resounding silence about this question of replacing the end boards. I wonder if, perhaps, I'm talking sacrilege in wanting to replace the ends on a Lachenal student instrument. I've taken another look at the damage and think I can probably put new pieces in. There are quite a few of them which is why I thought along those lines. That project will have to wait until I get the valves replaced, new pads installed, action adjusted, bellows repaired and repair a crack in the pad board that I just discovered once I got the Left side action box off.

 

Thanks for the pointer about the soldering tool. It does work. Also, grinding a screwdriver to exactly fit the slot of the bolt heads made a big difference in how well the screwdriver was able to stay in the slot. Screwdrivers are usually wedge shaped as they come from the store and need to be reshaped to have the flat sides parallel to each other . Otherwise they tend to push themselves out of the slot even if they are a good fit.

 

I'd like to repair the damage to the end plates around each of the bolt heads somehow. The left side plate is especially bad with raw gouges from previous owners attempts to open up the instrument with oversized screwdrivers. I don't think wood putty will look quite right. What have others done there? Should I plane/route off the top 1/32" or so at each corner and glue in a new piece of mahogany, matching the grain somehow? I suppose another option is to drill out the damaged area and glue in a plug, matching grain direction. An appropriate sized Forstner bit should do that nicely.

 

Here's a related question. What kind of wood was used in these student concertinas? It looks like mahogany, but what kind of mahogany was used? There are many different kinds and more were available around the turn of the century when this instrument was built. Anyone know?

 

Thanks,

 

Ed

 

Hi

 

If you haven't already, buy Dave Elliott's book on concertina repair. Link on amazon below:

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Concertina-Mainten...336&sr=8-12

 

This should get you started! Personlly I wouldn't worry about replacing the ends on this model - the cracks are easily repaired with wood glue and pieces of thin card (using a standard clamp to get the join nice and even). Removing rusty endbolts - I found a 10 second blast with a soldering tool does the trick (gently move screw either way befor going for the full unwind). Have to rush off to a meeting I'm afraid - but do get the book!!!

 

Dave Helmore

[Dirge]

If it's unspectacular wood and a cheap 'box, what about repairing the ends then 'ebonising' the wood. (black paint!) There's lots of black 'boxes about and it wouldn't look wrong. Then you can use the plastic wood, and anything else you fancy any old where and get it strong too.

[Marien]

About the reddish paper plate, many people take it out (it may be louder without), cutting the part with the serial number out and glue it behind the part of the fretwork where you can see it now.

[Theo]

I am noticing the resounding silence about this question of replacing the end boards. I wonder if, perhaps, I'm talking sacrilege in wanting to replace the ends on a Lachenal student instrument.

 

More likely that it would not be worth the effort on a basic instrument like this.

[Greg Jowaisas]

More likely that it would not be worth the effort on a basic instrument like this.

 

Ed,

I will echo Theo's succinct reply. However, if you have the skills and time and tools much can be learned in building new ends or in artfully doing the repairs you contemplate. Just go into it with your eyes open that what you will be gaining is expertise and pride in the project well done. The monetary rewards will be less conclusive.

 

Make sure you take before and after pictures. Keep us posted on your project. We may be able to answer specific questions as you progress.

 

Good luck!

 

Greg

[Theo]

This thread is well worth reading, especially the post from Accordionmagic.

[Ironframe]

Thanks for the pointer about the soldering tool. It does work. Also, grinding a screwdriver to exactly fit the slot of the bolt heads made a big difference in how well the screwdriver was able to stay in the slot. Screwdrivers are usually wedge shaped as they come from the store and need to be reshaped to have the flat sides parallel to each other . Otherwise they tend to push themselves out of the slot even if they are a good fit.

 

The left side plate is especially bad with raw gouges from previous owners attempts to open up the instrument with oversized screwdrivers.Thanks,

 

Ed

 

You may also find that sliding a piece of neoprene tube over the screwdriver you've 'customized' right down to the tip will prevent you slipping off the slot and leaving the aforementioned gouges that other less careful pokers and prodders have done. It will encompass the entire screwhead and help maintain the driver's position as you release the screw..

 

Foxy

[d.elliott]

Ed

 

"I guess the question is, is this an instrument that should be repaired in an "authentic" manner or does it not matter? I'm assuming it's a tutor model, the "cheapest" design that Lachenal made at the time"

 

I'm wondering a number of things about replacement of the end plates."

 

"1. What kind of glue was used on these end plates? Usually musical instrument makers would use hide glue which should be fairly easy to deal with (I studies musical instrument making at an earlier stage in my life). " Animal Glue, but I use PVA

 

"2. What kind of wood was used in the "tutor" models? It looks like maple (sycamore) but I'm not sure." Mahogany

 

"3. Is there any real problem with replacing the wooden plate with something a bit more snazzy like Amboyna veneer over maple or something like that? I'm currently thinking that it would be a vast improvement in the looks of the instrument but perhaps it would be better to restore the instrument to its original appearance. The work content would be the same, the value is about the reeds, and reedwork. it would be like putting 'go-faster stripes' down the sides of a 1970's 1100 cc ford escort

 

"4. I'm assuming the finish is probably varnish or shellac. Is this true?" yes a reasonable assumption, but do the usual checks anyway

 

"5. The holes for the buttons are sized for easy travel of the buttons. If I'm going to make new end plates anyway, would it be better to drill the holes oversize a bit to allow for installing felt bushings for each one? If so, what diameter do I make the holes if the keys are 4.85 mm in diameter? book page 28

 

"Any suggestions or observations from those who have done this themselves would be greatly appreciated."

 

 

1. make sure the time and effort is commensurate with the final value of the instrument, how ever so measured

 

2. the fun bit is accurately pitching the key holes, and what to use as a datum

 

3. the next fun bit is setting the pitched holes to line up with the peg holes on the action boards, 24 sources of error, each with a plane of error of 360 degrees

 

4. the next and even more fun bit is setting the action to suit the natural variation of the key board holes

 

5. cutting the fretting and then the polishing are easy in comparison

 

hope this helps a little

 

Dave E

[Pete Dunk]

I guess the question is, is this an instrument that should be repaired in an "authentic" manner or does it not matter? I'm assuming it's a tutor model, the "cheapest" design that Lachenal made at the time

 

One thing worth mentioning is the difference between the 'cheapest' design models. A few months ago I repaired a Lachenal basic tutor model (mainly recognisable by the lack of a decorative rebate around the edges of the ends) with rosewood ends. I now have a very similar concertina with mahogany ends, virtually identical apart from one very obvious omission, the cheap steel end bolts are tapped straight into the timber of the softwood bellows frames instead of having a threaded metal plate; this is a very bad thing! The corroded bolts have more or less stripped the softwood holes so there is major work to do just to get the ends to mate with the bellows. I could buy new end bolts and the little threaded plates but the cost is prohibitive so I have to ask if the value of the concertina warrants the expense, the cold-blooded answer is no.

 

As to historical accuracy I wouldn't give it a second thought, nothing about one of these concertinas has any significance. If your main objective is to practice the art of repair and/or restoration then you have the ideal opportunity as long as you remember that this was never anything other than a mediocre instrument and all you can hope to do is make it the best it can be. Silk purse/Sow's ear and all that.

 

At the end of the day you will have the satisfaction of turning a complete wreck into something that makes music. Along the way you will start to recognise the things that limit the instrument's playability- poor quality materials, inaccurate engineering, the lack of end bushing for the keys and worst of all the poor fit of the reed tongues in the shoes. Have fun, don't take it too seriously and keep us abreast of your progress.

 

Pete

[david robertson]

One thing worth mentioning is the difference between the 'cheapest' design models. A few months ago I repaired a Lachenal basic tutor model (mainly recognisable by the lack of a decorative rebate around the edges of the ends) with rosewood ends. I now have a very similar concertina with mahogany ends, virtually identical apart from one very obvious omission, the cheap steel end bolts are tapped straight into the timber of the softwood bellows frames instead of having a threaded metal plate; this is a very bad thing!

 

I think you'll find, if you look more closely, that even the cheapest steel bolts screw into little threaded plates. The difference is that on the cheaper models, the plates are not mounted on the edges of the bellows frame, but pushed into slots on the inside of the frame - you'll see them if you lift the chamois seal. You may also see evidence of their presence in the form of bulges in the binding leather on the outside of the bellows frame. Very often, a seized bolt will turn the plate in its slot, pushing through the timber and causing the said bulge.

[astrotina]

Hi David,

 

Thanks for responding. I've got your book and have been closely reading it to help me figure out where to start and what to do.

 

I'm confused by one of your lines from your response. ("Accurately pitching the key holes") By pitching the keyholes do you mean the process of locating the new holes in the new end plate so they line up with the old holes and the action plate? I suppose that makes the most sense here given the rest of your cautions. I've been thinking about that myself, how to line everything up so the keys travel smoothly as they are pushed. It's a rather daunting task to start from new and I'm starting to seriously reconsider whether to make new end plates.

 

One idea I'm toying with right now is trying to improve the action by increasing the size of the holes in the end plate so that I can insert felt bushings. I know the instrument never had them but it might help the over all playability. First thing is to get the instrument playing properly. Valves and pads and bellows repair.

 

About bellows repair. I've been reading about a product called "Zephyr leather". It sounds like a very thin leather, perfect for repair of bellows, especially in the inner fold where I do have some cracks. Anyone know where to find it in the states? I've been searching online and haven't found it except in reference on some concertina related sites. I don't seem to find it for sale.

 

Thanks,

 

Ed

Edited February 3, 2008 by astrotina

[astrotina]

Hi Pete,

 

Your point about the silkpurse/sows ear is well taken. I'm mostly interested in getting a reasonably playable instrument that sounds like a traditional concertina. It's a learning instrument for me, both from the standpoint of playing and repair. I'm also too cheap to spend $1000 or more for a restored instrument with brass reeds. If I can make it look nice along the way it might make the instrument more attractive to play both for me and the eventual next owner. I like troubleshooting and fixing things as well.

 

That said, how do I know a good instrument from a bad? I can upload images of the instrument for all to see if so requested. I just don't know how to judge the original quality of the instrument and haven't found much information in my stumbles across the internet about the different kinds of Lachenal models. I suppose the most important thing is the brass reeds in the reedpan, and next is the action and keys. Those would make the biggest difference in the playability and sound of the instrument.

 

Any pointers on what to look for in the reed pan and the action/key assembly to know if I have something reasonably decent or not?

 

Thanks,

 

Ed

[astrotina]

Here are a few photos of the concertina from the left side just to show the reed bed and the action. I've included a shot of the left face plate in case that helps anyone to identify the model as well.

 

The photos of the padboard show the cracks in the padboard that needs filling and fixing. Don't know if the cracks are large enough to warrant a piece of replacement wood or if wood filler will do.

 

Thanks,

 

Ed

Edited February 3, 2008 by astrotina

[Paul Read]

I now have a very similar concertina with mahogany ends, virtually identical apart from one very obvious omission, the cheap steel end bolts are tapped straight into the timber of the softwood bellows frames instead of having a threaded metal plate; this is a very bad thing!

 

I think you'll find, if you look more closely, that even the cheapest steel bolts screw into little threaded plates. The difference is that on the cheaper models, the plates are not mounted on the edges of the bellows frame, but pushed into slots on the inside of the frame - you'll see them if you lift the chamois seal. You may also see evidence of their presence in the form of bulges in the binding leather on the outside of the bellows frame. Very often, a seized bolt will turn the plate in its slot, pushing through the timber and causing the said bulge.

Correct, except that occasionally you will come across an instrument that has woodscrews and no metal plates. I believe this would not be the case with Lachenals but I had a Nickolds made that way.

[Pete Dunk]

First of all many thanks to David and Paul for the interesting info about Lachenal construction methods, I hadn't stripped the chamois out of either of the mahogany ended 'tinas, both of which have problems not tightening up rather than the bolts seizing in the plates.

 

Here are a few photos of the concertina from the left side just to show the reed bed and the action. I've included a shot of the left face plate in case that helps anyone to identify the model as well.

 

The photos of the padboard show the cracks in the padboard that needs filling and fixing. Don't know if the cracks are large enough to warrant a piece of replacement wood or if wood filler will do.

 

Thanks,

 

Ed

Now that looks like a pretty good project, nice and clean inside which is a good start. Personally I would clean up the padboard cracks and glue slips of maple veneer in from both sides, trim them flush next day. Take great care around the seating rings for the pads, Dave Elliott's trick of filling cracks in this area with plastic wood then smoothing by covering with cling film works like a charm. Pretty much everything else is covered in Dave's book. Re-pad, re-valve, if the reedpan is a poor fit in the bellows end roughen, pack out or replace the chamois as needed.

 

You can get all of the bits, including zephyr from David Leese in Wales who is well used to supplying people in the States. David doesn't list chamois for gaskets but he does sell it, you'd need to contact him to work out how to pay for it (usually by ordering something to the same value which is then substituted).

 

Pete.

[d.elliott]

I'm confused by one of your lines from your response. ("Accurately pitching the key holes") By pitching the keyholes do you mean the process of locating the new holes in the new end plate so they line up with the old holes and the action plate?

Pitching holes is about setting out all the centres with the correct spacing between them, plus the correct relationship to selected datums etc

 

I suppose that makes the most sense here given the rest of your cautions. I've been thinking about that myself, how to line everything up so the keys travel smoothly as they are pushed. It's a rather daunting task to start from new and I'm starting to seriously reconsider whether to make new end plates. good thinking

 

One idea I'm toying with right now is trying to improve the action by increasing the size of the holes in the end plate so that I can insert felt bushings. I know the instrument never had them but it might help the over all playability. First thing is to get the instrument playing properly. Valves and pads and bellows repair. bone keys are usually not bushed, don't need it

 

About bellows repair. I've been reading about a product called "Zephyr leather". It sounds like a very thin leather, perfect for repair of bellows, especially in the inner fold where I do have some cracks. Anyone know where to find it in the states? I've been searching online and haven't found it except in reference on some concertina related sites. I don't seem to find it for sale. Zephyr is very, very expensive, very thin, vey strong and bright white, I bought some a few years ago, and have never used it. work out the repairs you need to do and email David Leese for the normal repair materials. Don't even mention Zephyr.

 

Dave