Hearing Yourself And Judging Volume Balance

[Ray]

I wonder how players on this forum cope with a common concertina problem - judging your own volume against other instruments. Concertinas are quite penetrating instruments but of course the player is in the 'deaf zone', so in a noisy session in certain acoustic settings (eg a busy pub) it can be hard to hear yourself among the other players. I am conscious that in such circumstances if I pump it out loud enough to hear what I'm doing I am probably screechingly loud to everyone else.

 

It has often occurred to me that little reflectors attached to each side like car wing mirrors, angled to bounce the sound up to the player, would be useful. Anyone seen or tried such a thing?

 

Ray

[PeterT]

I wonder how players on this forum cope with a common concertina problem - judging your own volume against other instruments. Concertinas are quite penetrating instruments but of course the player is in the 'deaf zone', so in a noisy session in certain acoustic settings (eg a busy pub) it can be hard to hear yourself among the other players. I am conscious that in such circumstances if I pump it out loud enough to hear what I'm doing I am probably screechingly loud to everyone else.

Hi Ray,

 

Yes, a common problem. The common solution, presuming that you play with your legs crossed, is to angle the "business" end of the concertina (easy for those who play Anglo or Duet) up towards your head. You might go deaf, but at least you will hear what you are playing.

 

I don't have a photo from a session to illustrate this, but this one from a Morris performance shows exactly the same angle, whilst standing.

 

Regards,

Peter.

[Ray]

Agreed Peter, easy-peasy for Anglo/Duet players, but I was thinking of the English. I do occasionally turn one end towards myself just to get an idea of outgoing volume, (and in a really noisy session just to check I'm in the right position and haven't got one hand playing a fifth higher than the other !!), but of course with the English system you'd have to be a remarkably agile instrument-turner to get the whole tune full-on.

 

Ray

[PeterT]

Agreed Peter, easy-peasy for Anglo/Duet players, but I was thinking of the English.

Hi Ray,

 

Maybe I should have taken a look at your profile before making my previous response......I would have deduced that you played English from a previous topic!

 

So; two other options to consider, either of which may, or may not, be feasible:

 

(1) Position yourself so that a wall can act as a "reflector" for one end of the instrument.

(2) Sit much higher, or lower, than the other musicians.

 

I used to favour option (2) at Sidmouth, and it worked even with brass instruments either side! The pool table in the Radway was my favourite position, which also enabled me to see who was coming into the pub! In a "normal" pub setting, a bar stool as opposed to a chair gives the same effect.

 

Regards,

Peter.

[Mark Evans]

Ray, do you ever play standing up? Playing seated while holding an EC out in front of you at chest level can keep you in better touch with what you are actually playing (I believe this is Jim Lucas' prefered technique). To be sure, you are being heard but I know noisey sessions can really be disorianting for me as well. Sometimes I just listen or chord with the backers until the texture thins out.

 

You are wise to understand that even if you can't hear yourself the others most likely are and if you crank it up to where you are hearing well, your mates may be recieving a honking they'll not soon forgive you for. Our banjo player once remarked to me right after we finished Blarney Pilgrim, "man you were really honkin' on that one." It was said with smile but his tone was certainly a mild reproach. Imagine, a banjo player with taste and restraint. He even puts a rolled up pair of athletic socks between the truss rod and the head so his insrument will not be offensive .

 

On further thought I think Peter's technique on the anglo should work. Try resting your foot on the case. That should elevate your insturment closer to your ears. Good luck.

Edited January 21, 2008 by Mark Evans

[Ray]

Yes, good thoughts, chaps. Certainly holding the 'tina up at chest or even head height makes a big difference, but of course that also puts the instrument more directly in line with the ears of the poor sods on either side in your circle!

 

Using walls - or better still a corner - for reflection can be helpful where the room allows.

 

I am also a banjo player, Mark, so I fully appreciate your comment: "Imagine, a banjo player with taste and restraint." Actually I play banjo, concertina, bodhran, piccolo and bagpipes - how much confirmation could there be of a total lack of social responsibility??

 

But back to the to the question of hearing oursels as others hear us - I take it nobody liked my idea of little wing-mirror-style reflectors on the sides of the box?

 

Ray

Edited January 21, 2008 by Ray

[Clive Thorne]

Something I've seen aimed at sax players, for use on stage, is a pespex disk about 8 inches in diameter. This clips around a standard microphone and reflects some of the sound back up to the player. So the idea of a refelector is an established one. I guess the additional weight on the ends might be a problem, but why not try it and let us know how it goes.

 

Clive

[PeterT]

I am also a banjo player, Mark, so I fully appreciate your comment: "Imagine, a banjo player with taste and restraint." Actually I play banjo, concertina, bodhran, piccolo and bagpipes - how much confirmation could there be of a total lack of social responsibility??

I think, Ray, that maybe you have unwittingly given us the solution. I was once victim to bagpipes terminating a nice session at Edinburgh Folk Festival; this chap came in, all smiles, and, within a few seconds of him starting to play, the host musicians packed up their instruments. They are not called the "war pipes" for nothing!

 

Now, I'm not suggesting that you actually play the pipes in a confined space, but just taking them into the pub should ensure that all other musicians sit as far from you as possible....problem solved!

 

Regards,

Peter.

 

PS - was the "wing mirrors" idea yours, or suggested by other musicians?

[yankeeclipper]

They are not called the "war pipes" for nothing!

 

Indoor piping should be restricted to water and sewage.

[JimLucas]

But back to the to the question of hearing oursels as others hear us...

If that's your goal, it's a lost cause. Different folks in different parts of the room will hear you (and the others) differently. That's certainly true for relative volume levels (thanks to the inverse-square law of sound attenuation with distance, complicated by assorted reflecting and absorbing surfaces).

 

And volume isn't everything. The "piercing" quality of the concertina sound has been mentioned, but it's not an all-or-nothing thing. Once I was listening to the band at an outdoor dance, comprised of various fiddles, guitars, banjos, flutes, a couple of accordions, and one concertina. The location was beside a stream at the foot of a hill. Up close, I couldn't hear the concertina at all. About 40 yards (meters) up the hill, the concertina was the only thing I could hear.

 

Now I know that that's not the same as a crowded room, but the same general principle applies: what you hear depends on where you are. Pointing your endplate or reflecting a little bit of your sound back at you may change what you hear, or even give you a slightly better idea of how someone right next to you hears things, but it'll still be misleading. Even putting a microphone at some distance and listening through earphones to what it picks up will only tell you about the balance at the microphone.

 

My own rule of thumb is to watch the faces of the others in the room. Do they seem to be straining to hear me? Are they looking in my direction and wincing? If they don't seem to be noticing me at all, then showing them "consideration" by getting quieter certainly doesn't seem in order.

[JimLucas]

Indoor piping should be restricted to water and sewage.

And an ensemble of war pipes blaring out Loch Lomond is classified as which?

[Dave Prebble]

They are not called the "war pipes" for nothing!

 

Indoor piping should be restricted to water and sewage.

 

 

Hey Pal !!

 

What about the Beer !!

 

Dave

[PeterT]

They are not called the "war pipes" for nothing!

 

Indoor piping should be restricted to water and sewage.

 

 

Hey Pal !!

 

What about the Beer !!

 

Dave

I don't know about other Forum members, but it's strictly bottles in my house.

 

Peter.

[Rod Thompson]

My own rule of thumb is to watch the faces of the others in the room. Do they seem to be straining to hear me? Are they looking in my direction and wincing?

 

What if they are putting an earplug in? (In the concertina-facing ear only?)

 

(It did happen to me)!

[m3838]

At Cotati festival two years back I saw one player with an accordion, fixed with reflecting "ear" on it's trebble side.

Only it was facing the listeners .

Good thing, it didn't work.

So Jim is right here, driving to a parking lot some 100 yards from the stage, I could hear accordions souning in pleasant unison. When we came to the stage, all I heard was drum banging. Amplified!

I'm not in favour neither in amplification, nor in drum beat.

[chiton1]

I spent years playing an asthmatic, hoarse, muffled EC. To get dynamics and to get some sound I had to pull the thing hard. And even then it was difficult to get near all these loud playing violins, pipes and accordeons. Now I have what the concertina.net community calls vintage instruments with which I can play quite loud without any effort. Occasionally I indulge and let myself go (REVENGE!). But normally I try to listen and match my playing to others. For this I do sometime play near my ear, by lifting the instrument from my knee (mostly while playing slower pieces) or by bending over to my instrument during faster pieces. You do not have to do so all the time, just from time to time to make sure you are still on the right (musical) track. But make sure that the people with which you play make an effort too. If you can't hear yourself at all while playing with others, apparently several in that company are abusing. In that case just manace them that you will unleash your concertina if they don't behave!

Hermann