Dating A Wheatstone Maccann - Anyone Got Any Ideas?

[andrew_alden]

Having decided on trying a duet, I bought a 46 key Maccann off Ebay - with not too much work it should be a good instrument but when I stripped it down there is a question which I hope the more experienced out there may be able to help with.

No external maker's marks apart from 'English Made - Trade Mark' and the little free reed symbol stamped on the RH wooden handle - the metal end plates are stamped inside 'Wheatstone' and it has a Wheatstone type action. It has a JJ Vickers paper label (established 1887) on the back of each action box and is stamped twice with the Vickers stamp on the back of the left hand action box. The bellows and reed pans are stamped clearly with the number 2781 at both ends. The wooden frame of the action boxes have the number 2726 inscribed neatly in pencil at both ends. It does not look as if there is a fifth digit to these numbers that has been obscured or erased.

The numbers are too low to fit in with any of the published Wheatstone ranges - any ideas to the date of this one?

[JimLucas]

...46 key Maccann...

No external maker's marks apart from 'English Made - Trade Mark' and the little free reed symbol stamped on the RH wooden handle...

Which are the Lachenal trademark.

 

... the metal end plates are stamped inside 'Wheatstone' and it has a Wheatstone type action. It has a JJ Vickers paper label (established 1887) on the back of each action box and is stamped twice with the Vickers stamp on the back of the left hand action box.

It might appear that you have a "traditional" "hybrid". (That's an in joke for the regulars here, Andrew. Stick around, and you're sure to learn what it means. )

 

Seriously, my guess is that though it's a Lachenal, it went through the hands of both Vickers and Wheatstone at different times.

 

The bellows and reed pans are stamped clearly with the number 2781 at both ends. The wooden frame of the action boxes have the number 2726 inscribed neatly in pencil at both ends. It does not look as if there is a fifth digit to these numbers that has been obscured or erased.

The numbers are too low to fit in with any of the published Wheatstone ranges - any ideas to the date of this one?

The numbers are appropriate for Lachenal Maccanns. Lachenal ran separate sets of serial numbers for Englishes, anglos, and duets. (Among the duets, possibly also separate for Cranes and Maccanns, but I don't think that's been confirmed.)

 

With the second set of numbers pencilled in, I think it's quite possible that your instrument was reconstructed from the parts of two original instruments, each of which was damaged, but in different ways.

[Dirge]

Yes; Jim sounds suspiciously right; but nil desperandum if you have rivetted action and metal ends, perhaps it's only the grips , which matters damn all. What sounds like is the test. If it's nice to hear and even in temperament I should settle for that. (now ask me why battered Jeffries concertinas fetch huge sums on Ebay unheard and I will fail to supply a sensible answer)

[Stephen Chambers]

It might appear that you have a "traditional" "hybrid". ...

Seriously, my guess is that though it's a Lachenal, it went through the hands of both Vickers and Wheatstone at different times. ...

With the second set of numbers pencilled in, I think it's quite possible that your instrument was reconstructed from the parts of two original instruments, each of which was damaged, but in different ways.

Jim,

 

I think the "traditional" term here might more appropriately be mongrel, or I've sometimes used bitsa (bits of this and bits of that) to describe a box like this, though if the marriage was done by "concertina factors" J.J. Vickers that may be no harm at all, indeed my experience has been that Lachenal instruments bearing their stamp tend to have superior quality reeds.

[andrew_alden]

Thank you for the answers, it all makes a lot more sense now.

 

The reeds are all decent screwed-down steels and appear in tune except for the bottom E key which sounds as if it has a D reed on 'pull' and an E on 'push' - interesting! One snapped end bolt to replace, some new valves and pads and it should be a goer.

 

The other reason I decided to try this instrument was that it went down a bit lower than my Wheatstone English although is of the same physical size.

Edited December 23, 2007 by andrew_alden

[Greg Jowaisas]

Andrew,

A few pictures would be most illuminating. Of particular interest would be the ends with Wheatstone stamp and action mechanism. While uncommon it is not unheard of the occasional Lachenal having rivet action.

 

The beauty of Lachenal's manufacturing system was that reliance on machines and standard jigs along with apparently long production runs made many parts from different instruments interchangable. So a bellows "transplant" during the life of a Lachenal is a definite possiblity.

 

Wheatstone instruments it would seem were made on a more individual or small batch format. Interchangability of parts is not impossible but more difficult.

 

I've had a couple of concertinas made with a mix of Lachenal and Wheatstone pieces pass through my hands. They worked but the end result was not always eloquent. That is not to say some example of fine instruments from disparate parentages don't exist.

 

In the end the proof of the pudding is in the playing.

 

Greg

[tony]

except for the bottom E key which sounds as if it has a D reed on 'pull' and an E on 'push' - interesting!

 

Now that is a good idea. I think I may do that on my 46 key Maccann

[JimLucas]

except for the bottom E key which sounds as if it has a D reed on 'pull' and an E on 'push' - interesting!

Now that is a good idea. I think I may do that on my 46 key Maccann

Why not go whole hog and get an anglo?

[tony]

except for the bottom E key which sounds as if it has a D reed on 'pull' and an E on 'push' - interesting!

Now that is a good idea. I think I may do that on my 46 key Maccann

Why not go whole hog and get an anglo?

 

 

Been there, done that, got the 'T' shirt.

[andrew_alden]

Andrew,

A few pictures would be most illuminating. Of particular interest would be the ends with Wheatstone stamp and action mechanism. While uncommon it is not unheard of the occasional Lachenal having rivet action.

 

The beauty of Lachenal's manufacturing system was that reliance on machines and standard jigs along with apparently long production runs made many parts from different instruments interchangable. So a bellows "transplant" during the life of a Lachenal is a definite possiblity.

 

Wheatstone instruments it would seem were made on a more individual or small batch format. Interchangability of parts is not impossible but more difficult.

 

I've had a couple of concertinas made with a mix of Lachenal and Wheatstone pieces pass through my hands. They worked but the end result was not always eloquent. That is not to say some example of fine instruments from disparate parentages don't exist.

 

In the end the proof of the pudding is in the playing.

 

Greg

[andrew_alden]

Andrew,

A few pictures would be most illuminating. Of particular interest would be the ends with Wheatstone stamp and action mechanism. While uncommon it is not unheard of the occasional Lachenal having rivet action.

 

The beauty of Lachenal's manufacturing system was that reliance on machines and standard jigs along with apparently long production runs made many parts from different instruments interchangable. So a bellows "transplant" during the life of a Lachenal is a definite possiblity.

 

Wheatstone instruments it would seem were made on a more individual or small batch format. Interchangability of parts is not impossible but more difficult.

 

I've had a couple of concertinas made with a mix of Lachenal and Wheatstone pieces pass through my hands. They worked but the end result was not always eloquent. That is not to say some example of fine instruments from disparate parentages don't exist.

 

In the end the proof of the pudding is in the playing.

 

Greg

 

 

Mea Culpa, I've just realised the action is actually a Lachenal type but it still is a bit odd having Wheatstone stamped end plates..... a few photos as requested, Andrew

[Crane Driver]

Yeah - that's definitely a Lachenstone.