Sessions In A Changing Ireland

[Mark Evans]

I'm sure it's all well and good the sessions Peter and others discribe with very high standards an' all, while holding the gates against the hunched over barbarian hord. Seems in Ireland a formal pedagogy has been long established (most likely kept a tradition at a particular moment in time from an unwanted influence and eventual delution). Unfortunatley for the gatekeepers Trad has never been more internationaly popular and attracted more would be participants (a victim of its own success).Teaching of the young by the community (players) seems to have become a lost memory.

 

Unfortunately one of my other loves, bluegrass, is learning a thing er' two from Trad and not for the better. In our tradition a jam (session) has all comers, old hands and new in one big pot. The new gravitate toward the back of the circle, play along quietly and learn. At some point one of the old hands asks the newcomer, "what would you like to lead, you set the tempo". Some demure, others take it and run. This is a big deal, for if you lead the song or instrumental, you pick who plays the breaks with a nod of the head and a wink of the eye as the tune evolves (this is a first time freakin' rush). I've watched the smiles and even on occation tears when a newcomer singing the verse comes to the chorus and is suprised to hear we old dogs roar in a four part harmony (it has caused me to shed a tear as well at their discovery). Over time, experience builds and it's a holy thing to watch the blossoming.

 

That was our tradition. Somebody thought of introducing the cursed nightmare slow jam with a leader instructing. The natural learning process and a sense of community where "elders" teach while making music with the newcomer is in the process of dying and it was the very core of bluegrass theology (yes, for me music is religion).

 

The newcomers get trapped in an eddy and are affraid to move out into the current. The old hands, now squeezed out of prime space are more than a little resentful and when one of the newcomers with enough sand in their gizzard jumps out of their ghetto backwater to swim with the old "lunkers", said lunkers put their heads down and push the tempo a little faster (sound oddly familiar?). Damnit all but this is even erupted at festivals! I can tell myself this is only happening in New England but my heart tells me otherwise. How ironic that we did not hold the gates against a foreign influence, that now established will overtake us like an infestation of kudzoo.

 

I'm going to my Stone's session tonight, and hope like hell a couple of newcomers come timidly through the door. We'll welcome them as we always do, get them a chair, let'm settle in, ask their name, make sure there's a pint in front of them and give'm their turn at the helm. It's important to pass on the tradition of music and good will.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Mark Evans

[Guest Peter Laban]

I'm sure it's all well and good the sessions Peter and others discribe with very high standards an' all, while holding the gates against the hunched over barbarian hord. Seems in Ireland a formal pedagogy has been long established (most likely kept a tradition at a particular moment in time from an unwanted influence and eventual delution). Unfortunatley for the gatekeepers Trad has never been more internationaly popular and attracted more would be participants (a victim of its own success).Teaching of the young by the community (players) seems to have become a lost memory.

 

Interesting you come to this conclusion. I don't quite see how you got there though. It is yet another bit of rhetoric forever cropping up in these discussions: imply arrogance, 'being frozen in time', protective against 'dilution', 'gatekeepers', 'against change' and god forbid the ultimate damnation: 'purist'.

 

 

Painting one side of an argument is a cheap trick, it kills the possibility of discussing things openly.

 

None of that was anywhere implied in this discussion. Was it in this discussion I said more young players are playing than ever before? Yes it was actually, so where does the 'lost memory bit' come from? In fact, as I said before Irish music is more alive than ever before with more young Irish playing it than ever before and at a higher level than ever before. Music and traditions are being handed down and they are doing very well.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Peter Laban

[Aogan]

"Arrogance" in my opinion, no matter what your level or ability, is elbowing one's way into an established social gathering of any kind, without invitation or understanding of what is going on. I wouldn't do it to a group of people engaged in conversation, a couple playing chess, some people having a drink together, a gang sitting down to dinner, and I certainly wouldn't do it to a group of musicians playing music together. It's nothing more than common sense, and common manners. If musicians sometimes appear elitist or unwelcoming, it's because they have learned to be wary and suspicious of newcomers. The reason for this is the attitude, expressed by some above, that even if all you have is a saucpan and wooden spoon, you have a right to jump into a session unannounced and commence banging away.

 

Phew, apologies, I'm getting my rant on here.

 

Anyway all too often what happens is a wonderful session of music stutters to a halt because of the saucepan bearer's cacophony. The musicians in the session are too polite to ask him or her to keep it down / go away and they give up trying to have a nice tune, pack up and go somewhere else.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Aogan

[yankeeclipper]

...the attitude, expressed by some above, that even if all you have is a saucpan and wooden spoon, you have a right to jump into a session unannounced and commence banging away.

I can't recall anyone here expressing anything like that.

[Aogan]

I'm not joking, I've seen it happen.

 

Other favourites of mine include the coin against the glass ashtray player, oh and the teaspoon against a pint glass percussionist. Classic.

[m3838]

A friend of mine was pestering me for two years to play Hockey with him, because he tried to join San Francisco teams, but found to his dissatisfaction that, though the players are very polite and always complimented him for his skating skills, he was no match. Finally I gave in. He trained me, sportless sack, to the point, where I invariably win every game. We invited a few more friends, one of which can barely skare, but one is former Saint Petersburg Tennis Champion.

Will you suggest some complete stranger to walk in and ask to play with us? We won't turn him down, but...

One, our skill level is specific. Two, we create our own rules, that change due to weather. Three, we speak Russian, and that Tennis Champion is keen on commenting the game, mocking some great sport commentators. Sometime we tire just from the loughter and that's the end of a game. We started this "session" and would like to keep control over it.

Call it arrogance, but as my friend puts it, "Life must have room for illusion of happiness".

So far these were the best moments of my later life. Spoil it? No!

[Phantom Button]

more traditional courtesies suggest that no one holds a monopoly on music in a public space, and strangers should be made welcome.

In our tradition a jam (session) has all comers, old hands and new in one big pot. The new gravitate toward the back of the circle, play along quietly and learn. At some point one of the old hands asks the newcomer, "what would you like to lead, you set the tempo".

These are examples of common preconceptions that people have when approaching any given session. Even though their preconception might be true for many sessions they encounter, it's dangerous to assume it's true for all sessions. I think you'll have the best experience if you leave these sorts of preconceptions behind and allow each session to define itself to you as you encounter it.

 

Contrary to public opinion, there are no universal rules defining what a session is or isn't. I believe the burden falls on the visitor to determine whether or not they should approach the session and ask to join. Sometimes the people having the session are including anyone who comes regardless of their ability or experience, and you'll be encouraged to join... and that's great, but you shouldn't assume every session you encounter from that point forward should be the same or it means the musicians are elitist snobs. If you make that error you might be overcome with feelings of disappointment and miss out on a great musical experience. I'm speaking from experience here -- I've learned this the hard way.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Phantom Button

[Guest Peter Laban]

I am actually still pissed off my the things Mark was implying.

 

Passing on traditions involves more than making people welcome at a session. The unfortunate thing is that people who spend their holiday in Ireland see musicians casually stroll into a pub and play music. It looks all fine and uncomplicated but do they really know, are they able interpret what they are seeing?

Obviously I don't think they do or can. They see a surface of something much bigger and mistake it for the thing itself.

 

Mark implies people like myself are narrow-minded gatekeepers with barely a memory of passing on traditions. I actually find that at best short-sighted and foolish and at worst highly insulting. I can take my own son as an example. He has grown up with music, always had music around him and when seven he expressed an interest in the concertina. He got a mid range Lachenal and started learning from Edel Fox with a group of local children from around the same age. He has taken whistle lessons locally with Brid O Donohue and played, again with his peers, often. Brid had a special young people's session going, the Ceol na nOg every second week during the winter. A group of around thirty children would turn up for it (and we're talking a small rural community in West Clare here) A 'special mystery guest' would turn up each time to play for and with the children, talk about music. They loved it and got a chance to hear most of the local older players (Kitty Hayes and myself were guests several times over the years) as well as people like Paddy Canny. He has since moved up to a lovely old (probably) Crabb and he has been going to Noel Hill the past two years. All musicians know he plays, as do most of the non musicians. When he was eight I found him discussing concertina playing in the supermarket with Jackie Daly. Musicians always ask how he's doing, how the cocnertina is coming along. Edel Fox, Dympna O Sullivan, Miriam Collins (who's children went to the same national school he did), Josephine Marsh and many others always talk to him about the concertina and encourage him. He comes along to Kitty Hayes' often and plays a few tunes with her, which they both love. A lot of his peers in school play, at least two dozen concertina players in his own age group and many many more on other instruments and they know eachother, they're tomorrow's players and they are learning the mores of traditional music.

He's not unique, it's a common thing. It's handing on tradition in the broadest sense. And it has nothing to do with gatecrashing social gatherings, stepping into situations where you are out of your depth and thinking your entitled being there or being picky about who you play with. It's an encouraging and welcoming part of community life in Clare.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Peter Laban

[Paul Read]

Gosh! All very heated. Thank goodness I play nice friendly English music!

[Mark Evans]

Sorry if I've pissed you off Peter. I feel I've honestly reacted to the overall tenor of what folks were presenting here. There is nothing wrong with being a purist (I'm one myself depending on the genre I'm on about at the moment). I just question the pedagogy of the Irish trad system, although it has been very successful in turning out players. My questions arise from conversations with several musicians from Ireland I've encountered in "classical" music that came up through the trad system. It has nothing to do with you or your son. Seems your lad has done well and you are blessed.

 

Nothing wrong with being a gatekeeper as well. I wish I and others had screamed a bit more when the idea of of a slow jam was proposed for our local once a month bluegrass jam. It ruined something I dearly loved.

 

The tradition in bluegrass public jams I grew up with was established long ago and that I can and did speak to and further stand by. It's dilution I decry as a gatekeeper and purist.

 

I make no assumptions on other peoples session in TRAD. Tis' their business not mine.

 

As far as my current Irish session...I followed the rules. Went to Stone's with my wife to listen, eat fish and chips and drink (did not drag along my tina). The harpist knew of me (not I her). I was called over and asked to sing and with her at the harp, we had a blast. Several of the lads said come back any time Mark....I did. Four years ago now.

 

I did not mean to give offense, but I cannot in honesty retreat from what I feel.

Edited December 12, 2007 by Mark Evans

[Ken_Coles]

Friends,

 

I have only been to Ireland once, eight years ago now. There was no question of attempting to play in sessions on that trip, as I had several carpal tunnel problems at the time and couldn't play a note. I had a blast sitting in pubs all over and merely listening. My only regret was not being able to take concertina class at Willie Clancy week. Admittedly I am middle-aged, not young and gifted, but being limited to playing at a class and listening otherwise would be (in Ireland) and was (at the Catskills school some years later) enough for me. I have worked out the dynamics at sessions I am able to frequent near home on a regular basis, and am comfortable with that.

 

Finding where you fit musically is always complicated and takes effort. I play (as I note some others here do) a brass instrument as an amateur, the (so called "French") horn. I found good outlets in my last two abodes, but where I am now it has been a long search, three years so far. I am in a community band where the leadership is too overbearing and overachieving for my taste, given that some of my fellow band members are way below the level needed for us to work well as a group (I mean really unable to play at all). Yup, I guess some settings require standards for participation. I will "retire" from that group after the holiday concerts. My goal is either a challenging group where _everyone_ needs to keep up, or a casual group where any level can join and the conductor doesn't try to make us into something we aren't and likely never will be. I just want to keep playing in a venue where the expectations and responsisbilities are consistent. I can get challenging playing for horn in my practice or at the (new) Pittsburgh horn club meetings. Ditto for my concertina, I guess.

 

Or horses for courses, as they say. Back to my concertina/horn.

 

Ken

[meltzer]

Gosh! All very heated. Thank goodness I play nice friendly English music!

Mind you, English traditional music isn't swamped with folk trying to recover their English roots.