Pad Materials

[Marien]

On its 104th birthday, I thought I could give a present to may lachenal anglo, being home made concertina pads. If I understand well, one can glue leather and felt on board pads. I guess that thin goat skin leather (like for the bellows) would be okay. I am not sure about the felt. How thin should it be? Where can you get it? If I look at materials for accordion pads, it all looks too thick and if I would use that, the button response would become too spongy I suppose, so the main question is: does anybody know an address for felt of the appropriate thickness..

Thanks.

Marien

[Larry Stout]

Given that you are in the Netherlands, have you considered looking up Wim Wakker? I'm fairly certain you could buy pads in the right thickness and diameter from him. My contact has all been at considerable distance, but he was most helpful. His web presence is at concertinaconnection.com, which advertises on this site.

[Theo]

If you just want pads for one concertina you are giving yourself a lot of work. Of course you may just want to do it to see if you can.

 

Leather - I'd want to use something softer than goatskin, several grades of lamb or sheep leather have the necessary softness. You might find you have to buy a whole skin! That is the way leather is sold here in England. Felt, 1mm to 1.5mm is about the right thickness, but be guided by the existing pads. And for card a good quality rag board is nice and strong and allows you to use thinner material than with cheaper board.

 

Then you will also need to buy or make punches, probably 2 or 3 different sizes to cut the pads once the materials are all glued together.

 

You can buy ready made pads from Wim, or from David Leese in Wales.

[m3838]

And for card a good quality rag board is nice and strong and allows you to use thinner material than with cheaper board.

 

Why can't thin airplane model plywood (1-2mm) be used? It's much stronger than cardboard, will not indent with time, and can be re-used. I'm sure 100 years ago thin plywood didn't exist, but why makers keep on using cardboard?

I also don't think that thick felt-leather sandwich will make the buttons spongy. Why? It will just seal better.

But I wonder how does one glue new pads to the levers and secure pads' positions? Not an easy process to my naked eye.

When you take the top end off, buttons lose their uppermost guides, right? The levers go through the buttons, and use them as guids too, so the ends of levers get all disarranged. Given the tight space inside, how does one arrange the whole thing? Just eyeballing?

[Pete Dunk]

And for card a good quality rag board is nice and strong and allows you to use thinner material than with cheaper board.

 

Why can't thin airplane model plywood (1-2mm) be used? It's much stronger than cardboard, will not indent with time, and can be re-used. I'm sure 100 years ago thin plywood didn't exist, but why makers keep on using cardboard?

I also don't think that thick felt-leather sandwich will make the buttons spongy. Why? It will just seal better.

But I wonder how does one glue new pads to the levers and secure pads' positions? Not an easy process to my naked eye.

When you take the top end off, buttons lose their uppermost guides, right? The levers go through the buttons, and use them as guids too, so the ends of levers get all disarranged. Given the tight space inside, how does one arrange the whole thing? Just eyeballing?

 

Using aero-ply would be impractical as I see it, the beauty of the traditional construction is that you can make the three part sandwich as a flat sheet and then punch them out - quick, neat, simple. With ply you'd have to cut and tidy up the discs singly and then glue on the other layers which would take forever. I wouldn't think that durability was an issue in any instance as a set of pads should last decades. I buy mine in from David Leese and wouldn't even consider making my own, that's carrying DIY a little to far.

 

As for fitting new pads, it is relatively straight forward and requires a quite modest level of skill. It does however require a little patience and a good eye for detail. Replacing one or two at a time (I prefer to do one at a time) reduces the possibility of having levers flapping about all over the place to nil; it also allows you to set the key heights as you go. As for the glue used, some use hide glue, others (like me) use PVA (Elmer's). Both work well.

 

If you are really interested in how things like this are done I would recommend that you buy a copy of Dave Elliott's excellent Concertina Maintenance Manual. Come to think of it I would have thought this book would be of great interest to any concertina owner whether they intend to do repairs themselves or not.

[McIsog]

Skip the felt layer. Just use acid free poster board or framing mat material and lay up some thin chamois. Then punch to the desired diameter. This may result in a thinner pad but you can bend the arms and reset the button height (which will need doing anyway). You can glue up smaller circles of leather to re glue your arms to.

[Frank Edgley]

If you want a concertina that doesn't make annoying clapping noises as you play, I would recommend the felt layer. You would be asking for a whole lot of extra work, bending the arms unneccessarily, and potentially damaging the instrument. A small bit of button height adjustment may be required when using standard pads, but very minor compared with bending all the arms. A set of pads, ready made is not that expensive and will probably be the last set you will need to install for quite a long while. Definitely do them one at a time, and use proper mounting discs (not sure of the official term) so there is a bit of flexibility at the leather nut / pad joint. This will help the pads to seat better and provide a better seal against the action board. Lachenals are about the most difficult concertinas to repad and get absolutely airtight for a variety of reasons. I could go on about technique to do this but... Anyway, you have a valuable instrument. Getting someone who has done a lot of these (a repairperson) isn't an entirely bad idea.

[david robertson]

On its 104th birthday, I thought I could give a present to may lachenal anglo, being home made concertina pads. If I understand well, one can glue leather and felt on board pads. I guess that thin goat skin leather (like for the bellows) would be okay. I am not sure about the felt. How thin should it be? Where can you get it? If I look at materials for accordion pads, it all looks too thick and if I would use that, the button response would become too spongy I suppose, so the main question is: does anybody know an address for felt of the appropriate thickness..

Thanks.

Marien

 

As just about everyone else has said, there's more to it than meets the eye. As well as your card-felt-leather sandwich, you'll need new sampers (the little leather discs that go on top of each pad) and new leather grommets to go on the lever arms. You'll also need to buy or borrow a wad punch - you'll only need one size to tackle any Lachenal Anglo, though a little pad trimming may be required here and there to clear the frames of the action box. If I were you, I'd also replace all the cross-drilling bushes in the buttons while you've got the instrument apart - and it would probably benefit from new felt damper washers under each button. I'm not sure why you should do one pad at a time - personally, I find it a lot easier to put new pads in place when there aren't old ones on either side. You can then do whatever minor bending of the levers is needed to achieve uniform button height with a pair of long-nose pliers, but make sure you hold the button down while you do it. If, after all that, you're still really determined to make your own pads, send me your address, and I'll send you enough 2mm, .18 density all-wool felt for your Anglo. Because of minimum orders, I had to buy enough to last the rest of my life, so I can spare you a little!

Edited November 21, 2007 by david robertson

[Marien]

Thanks all,

 

A little bit of background. Some years ago, a decent accordeon repairman has put "real" accordeon pads on it with a thick felt layer. It closes very good, but if I press a button it feels spongy, like I have to push the button further until the moment is there that the leather layer is moving from the plate, and it does not play very direct, that is why I think traditional (thinner and lighter weighing) pads would be better on it.

 

Besides, I know Wim has pads. Not that I don't want to disturb him while he is currently making my new F/C anglo, but the real reason I asked about it is like Theo suggested, I just want to try and see how it is done, maybe I am going to try on my leaky 20 button Bes/F lachenal first (if I find some time somewhere).

 

Marien