Is This 30b Anglo Really A Jeffries?

[nkgibbs]

Hi everyone,

What is your verdict on this ebay offering; a Jeffries or an imposter?

Best,

Neil

[Paul Read]

A friend and I were wondering the same earlier today. Looking at the bellows, they are not very Jeffries-like but may be representative of early Dipper - this would tie in with the seller's suggestion that Colin 'may' have restored it. He also seems to be hedging on whether it is a Jeffries. That fretwork doesn't look quite right to me.

[Lawrence Reeves]

If not a Jeffries, might be a very fine Crabb. Looking at the buttons, seem bone. I don't remember seeing very many bone buttoned Lachenals with metal fretwork, but a shot on the reed layout might help out. A touch over the top for my taste on the bellows, but still could be a fine oldie.

[Paul Read]

If not a Jeffries, might be a very fine Crabb. Looking at the buttons, seem bone. I don't remember seeing very many bone buttoned Lachenals with metal fretwork, but a shot on the reed layout might help out. A touch over the top for my taste on the bellows, but still could be a fine oldie.

Lachenals did do metal-ended instruments with bone buttons. I have one - but the metal is inset into an ebony surround. I don't think it's a Lachenal though. I have just been comparing the fretwork in detail with a 28-button one and I have changed my mind - it's almost identical. That doesn't mean it isn't a Crabb though - does it?

 

I'm leaning towards Jeffries with 70s Dipper bellows. Any other thoughts?

[Greg Jowaisas]

Where is the

C. Jeffries

MAKER

stamp?

Edited November 16, 2007 by Greg Jowaisas

[Paul Read]

Where is the

C. Jeffries

MAKER

stamp?

Good question. Without that it's hard to claim it's a Jeffries. It may be worth asking him...... no it isn't, I don't need a Jeffries C/G..........................

[Daniel Hersh]

The fretwork on this concertina looks very similar to that on my own no-name C/G Anglo. Mine has ivory buttons -- I can't tell from the pics whether the eBay one has ivory or bone.

 

I bought my concertina in the early 1980's from Stephen Chambers, who had restored it. Stephen didn't know if it was a Jeffries or a Crabb, saying that their instruments from that period (early 1880's) are very similar. At one point, Neil Wayne looked at it inside and out and he couldn't tell either, though he said that if he had to make a choice he would say Crabb.

 

Since then, Geoff Crabb has posted messages on this forum that may provide the answer. Geoff states that the earliest concertinas sold by Jeffries were actually made by Crabb and re-badged with the Jeffries name. Crabb sold similar instruments to other merchants as well. See this thread for details. So if this is one of those instruments, one might say that it's a Crabb -- but if it had the C. Jeffries stamp it might still be a Crabb!

 

Perhaps this all points to a larger issue: judging instruments by their brand name rather than their sound and playability. But that would be another thread...

 

Daniel

 

Where is the C. Jeffries MAKER stamp?

Good question. Without that it's hard to claim it's a Jeffries. It may be worth asking him...... no it isn't, I don't need a Jeffries C/G..........................

[Paul Read]

Perhaps this all points to a larger issue: judging instruments by their brand name rather than their sound and playability. But that would be another thread...

 

Daniel

And that brings us back to the risks of ebay bidding....................................

Edited November 19, 2007 by Paul Read

[Chris Timson]

Also agree about the Dipper bellows. Don't think it's a Lach because the buttons are heavily raked a la Jeffries/Crabb.

 

Chris

[David Levine]

Take your pick: caveat emptor or honi soit qui mal y pense ...

 

Without playing it, and given the price, it's a big gamble, isn't it.

[Daniel Hersh]

Well, at least this one is in England rather than in Peru! If it's a good one, it will likely be purchased by someone who has a chance to play it beforehand.

 

Take your pick: caveat emptor or honi soit qui mal y pense ...

 

Without playing it, and given the price, it's a big gamble, isn't it.

[Marien]

also the fretwork doesn't look very lachenally to me.

[Paul Read]

also the fretwork doesn't look very lachenally to me.

If you look at the postings above you'll see this has been discussed.

[Geoffrey Crabb]

A problem with this one. Immediately apparent in the view of the left hand action is the missing lever etc. at the end of the middle row and what seems to be a blocked pad hole. This would suggest that the instrument started life as a 32 key or special with one extra button. (A 32 key proper has an extra button to the extreme right of each middle row).

Absence of a right internal picture and left end picture fail to confirm this but the presence of the upright (pivot post) tang hole and button guide pin hole assumes that the extra note was fitted originally.

The lever arrangement in the left side does follow the early Crabb design but the fretwork although similar, does seem to deviate in places from the Crabb original. The end boxes seem to be made of mahogany with sycamore desks, not usual in Crabb instruments but not impossible I guess. The bellows guilding is not Crabb.

If the instrument is of Jeffries manufacture then I suggest it is an early copy of the instruments supplied to him by the Crabb workshop.

 

Geoff

[Greg Jowaisas]

Geoff and all,

What about the hand bar post support? (As shown in the action pan pic.) I have not seen one of those on a Jeffries before.

 

Curiouser and couriouser.

 

Greg

[Lawrence Reeves]

According to the seller's response to question of right hand layout. Not a typical Jeffries third row layout. Also mentions a more mellow tone than Jeffries. Still no bids, ebay removed a C Jeffries ripoff this morning. It was a 50 button ( probably a duet) 1500 dollar buy it now. I was on site when it away.

[JimLucas]

Looking at the bellows, they are not very Jeffries-like but may be representative of early Dipper - this would tie in with the seller's suggestion that Colin 'may' have restored it.

I'm leaning towards Jeffries with 70s Dipper bellows. Any other thoughts?

Also agree about the Dipper bellows. Don't think it's a Lach because the buttons are heavily raked a la Jeffries/Crabb.

 

...would suggest that the instrument started life as a 32 key or special with one extra button. ... Absence of a right internal picture and left end picture fail to confirm this but the presence of the upright (pivot post) tang hole and button guide pin hole assumes that the extra note was fitted originally.

The lever arrangement in the left side does follow the early Crabb design but the fretwork although similar, does seem to deviate in places from the Crabb original. The end boxes seem to be made of mahogany with sycamore desks, not usual in Crabb instruments but not impossible I guess.

If there was an additional button on the right-hand end, I don't see a place for it in the fretwork. Is the place where it would have been where some of Geoff's "deviation" is found? What if the end was (or ends were) replaced when the instrument was restored? In fact, if the original ends were wood and severely damaged, that might account for a not-quite-perfect copy of the original fretwork (improvisation where pieces were missing), while replacing wooden ends with metal ends would require new end boxes, which wouldn't necessarily be made of the same woods as the original.

So far, that's just speculation on my part. What do you experts think? Plausible, or not?

And if Colin did restore it, might he remember the details?