Why No Good Instruments With Less That 30 Buttons ?

[Guest Peter Laban]

Yes! A point I've made elsewhere about Paddy Murphy on this site Peter. I think the old push/pull style has a lot of life in it yet and we'll see a comeback. Just as press and draw melodeon/button accordion after the B/C boom! The Anglo's only an 'owd mouthorgan' split in two isn't it!

I loved that 12 steps item on the session about obsessive 'ITM' players 'rolling it'.

 

 

Not sure though I'd put Murphy in the push and draw style though. It depends when you'd consider him starting to lay the foundations for the modern style. From the recordings I heard he had Mullaly's style down pretty early on, which in itself is no mean feat.

[bill_mchale]

... the half-step tuned accordions being the most clearly unique to ITM ...

 

Bill

 

I think some Scottish TM players might have a case to argue that one with you, Bill

 

But perhaps in another forum....

 

LOL... Ok, I grant that, though I think that Scottish musicians tend to prefer triple row boxes, as opposed to Irish double row boxes. Also, I think there are less different types of scottish box... In Irish you have the B/C, C#/D, D/Eb, C/C# and even a D/C# tuning. The popularity of the first two does not negate the place of the others.

 

--

Bill

[david_boveri]

Yes! A point I've made elsewhere about Paddy Murphy on this site Peter. I think the old push/pull style has a lot of life in it yet and we'll see a comeback. Just as press and draw melodeon/button accordion after the B/C boom! The Anglo's only an 'owd mouthorgan' split in two isn't it!

I loved that 12 steps item on the session about obsessive 'ITM' players 'rolling it'.

 

 

Not sure though I'd put Murphy in the push and draw style though. It depends when you'd consider him starting to lay the foundations for the modern style. From the recordings I heard he had Mullaly's style down pretty early on, which in itself is no mean feat.

 

who said push/pull is dead? there are many players who play in this fashion, and who teach it. i do not think it is going anywhere.

 

it just depends on the sound you want. i think it is a problem when people just start hitting notes and never think about how they want it to sound. for example, this year noel hill was very clear with us that he would not play the old concertina reel in his fingering system, because it wouldnt sound right. he plays it in C, only in the C row, and accompanies across the row. this is to recreate the sound of playing along the row in the key of C, which many players used to do. noel's style is very much based on the styles that have gone before him, but ultimately on an attempt to recreate the sounds of other instruments.

 

the chording and ornamentation noel uses is designed to sound like the pipes. noel often references fiddle players (imitating bow movements) when talking about why he chooses one button/direction over another--to phrase things how a fiddler might. i have not heard this from him, but many times he puts in things where a flute player would breathe. and yet there are more things he does that are based on the way the instrument sounds, and the punch he wants it to have, or the smoothness, or the emotional affect, or because of the limitations of the instrument.

 

not everyone will put so much thought into it, nor do most want to--it might be dishonest for another to. i love mary macnamara's playing, and i think it is just as honest and sincere as noel's. if noel were to play like mary, it would be a lie, and i think if mary were to play like noel, it would be an equal lie. using these two players as examples, i think the best musicians play the best way that suits themselves, or rather, that the best musicians play from the heart, without any consideration of what others may deem is correct or in vogue.

[michael sam wild]

Yes! A point I've made elsewhere about Paddy Murphy on this site Peter. I think the old push/pull style has a lot of life in it yet and we'll see a comeback. Just as press and draw melodeon/button accordion after the B/C boom! The Anglo's only an 'owd mouthorgan' split in two isn't it!

I loved that 12 steps item on the session about obsessive 'ITM' players 'rolling it'.

 

 

Not sure though I'd put Murphy in the push and draw style though. It depends when you'd consider him starting to lay the foundations for the modern style. From the recordings I heard he had Mullaly's style down pretty early on, which in itself is no mean feat.

 

Sory Peter the comment on push pull was an afterthought, I'd been listening to Mrs Crotty and your record with Kitty Hayes and Chris Droney and going back to my early mouth organ style. It's such an adaptable instrument we shouldn't get too doctrinaire about the Anglo.

 

It will surprise us still! Look what Zulus did with it!

[Guest Peter Laban]

Not to worry, styles aren't as defined as some would have us believe. It's all in the musical effectiveness with regards to what you want to achieve.

 

Some years ago a guy from Marcus concertinas set up shop during the Willie Clancy week. I went in to have a look at the concertinas in the shop and got talking to him. First he started giving out about Seamus Ennis and Willie Clancy and how the old feckers hadn't a clue, Paddy Keenan that was the man who re-invented the pipes and showed us all how it should be done.

I asked about a D/A concertina or even a D/G one, Kitty Hayes was looking for one as she wanted to be able to play in concert-pitch every now and again. Your man started giving out about Kitty coming into the shop the day before, trying concertinas, 'She hasn't a clue, she got the fingerings all wrong'. 'She plays great music though' I tried but he wouldn't have it. 'Noel' had it right and old ladies like Kitty shouldn't get notions, they had it all wrong from the beginning anyway, pushing all the wrong buttons and all.

 

What can you say?

[Anglo-Irishman]

Not to worry, styles aren't as defined as some would have us believe. It's all in the musical effectiveness with regards to what you want to achieve.

 

Absolutely!

 

'She plays great music though' I tried but he wouldn't have it. 'Noel' had it right and old ladies like Kitty shouldn't get notions, they had it all wrong from the beginning anyway, pushing all the wrong buttons and all.

 

What can you say?

 

I say, it's not about what goes into playing the concertina - it's about what comes out of it.

 

If what comes out appeals to an interested, perhaps even critical, but non-playing audience, that's good style

If it appeals to a disinterested audience, even better!

 

Sometimes we musicians are so taken up with how something is played - with a view to perhaps playing it that way ourselves - that we tend to forget that music is what you hear, not how you finger.

 

Cheers,

John

[michael sam wild]

who said push/pull is dead? there are many players who play in this fashion....

for example, this year noel hill was very clear with us that he would not play the old concertina reel in his fingering system, because it wouldnt sound right. he plays it in C, only in the C row, and accompanies across the row. this is to recreate the sound of playing along the row in the key of C, which many players used to do.

 

 

That's interesting I was playing a tune from the Bertram Levy Book and CD, The Morning Dew? which is in Dmin and goes all on the C row of the C/G. He says he learnt it from an old man in the 1970s who played that way. In the same way A min often goes best on the C row in the old style I think.

[michael sam wild]

I was quoting D Boveri there!