Having A Practice Box Made?

[caj]

Hi,

 

I've finally settled on my new concertina layout, a 30-button anglo layout with a pretty crazy assignment of notes. I want to have a practice box made (e.g., something playable that I'd see this year, not 4 years from now.) It's a standard 30-button form factor, except for the note assignment.

 

Alternatively, I could buy a set of reeds and make a pair of spare reedpans to fit my existing practice box, which presently goes unused.

 

But here's a problem: in this new layout the notes are very far apart. For an average button, the push note and pull note are about SIX HALF-STEPS apart! So this won't be a simple matter of retuning the reeds of an accordion-reeded anglo, for which push- and pull-notes are often only 1 or 2 half steps apart.

 

Any recommendations?

 

Caj

[Frank Edgley]

"So this won't be a simple matter of retuning the reeds of an accordion-reeded anglo, for which push- and pull-notes are often only 1 or 2 half steps apart."

 

Reply: This presents a problem. Because the reed chamber size should be optimised for the size of the reed, having two reeds so far apart in pitch sharing the same chamber is not a good thing. I'm not sure that a concertina would perform satisfactorily with notes 6 half steps apart on the same button. Certainly, it would play, but I have a feeling that it would not play well, with either slow reed response and / or tone.

[JimLucas]

I'm not sure that a concertina would perform satisfactorily with notes 6 half steps apart on the same button

This occurred to me, too, but then I thought of the two lowest notes in the left-hand middle (on a 30-button) row, which are 7 half steps apart (C-G, G-D, etc.). So I wonder.

[Clive Thorne]

My 36 key Jeffries had nothing on the left hand thumb button when I got it, so I got Colin Dipper to fit reeds to it. My choice was for a C on the pull and the Bb almost an octave above on the pull. I asked Colin if this would work OK, he thought it would, and indeed it does seem to work just fine.

 

Obviously this is with traditional concertina reeds; whether it would work any less well with accordian reeds I couldn't say. Also, these notes were in the mid to low range of the instrument, whether the same interval would work OK towards the top or extreme bottom of the range is also unclear.

 

 

Clive.

 

PS: Does this question the idea that reed chambers are/should be tuned to match the reed pitch?

 

 

PPS: Whoops, I've just realised that Caj's original question was more to do with the actual tuning of the reeds rather than the size of the chamber. If this instrument is mainly to test out the note layout, could you hack saw two reed plates in half and then araldite two diffrent half togethers (or just seal the join with wax) to get the combination you require? Then again, because its a test bed, get the best fit standard pair you can, and add solder to drop the lower reed to the pitch you want?

 

Edited to add the PS - and the PPS.

Edited January 26, 2004 by Clive Thorne

[Frank Edgley]

JIM: "This occurred to me, too, but then I thought of the two lowest notes in the left-hand middle (on a 30-button) row, which are 7 half steps apart (C-G, G-D, etc.). So I wonder."

 

Good point, Jim. I'm not sure either, but the examples are notes which are usually played in isolation, rather than in a sequence of notes in a melody line. In other words, the examples given (the thumb button, and the low C/G note in the L-2-1 button) are bass notes used primarily for chords etc. I would suspect that if the notes in the melody note range were so far apart the balance may be uneven. Of course, Colin can probably manage anything with a concertina .

[Clive Thorne]

Of course, Colin can probably manage anything with a concertina .

Or that, being on the drone button, my C/Bb button is also used mainly in chords and I just haven't noticed any imbalance!

 

Frank, my question about tuning chamber sizes just occurred to me as I typed up my experience with my one and only concertina. I hope it didn't come over as an aggressive contradiction of what you had said.

 

Clive.

Edited January 26, 2004 by Clive Thorne

[caj]

A little more data about chamber size:

 

My practice box is a Norman, and the Norman's reed-pan is actually one single thick hunk of particle board or fiber-board, rather than a wooden pan with dividers glued on. The chambers are routed into it, with the reed carriers screwed on one end.

 

There's a picture of this on Bob Tedrow's Norman page.

 

Now, this means that each reed chamber is just the same size as (well, just a bit smaller than) the aluminum reed block screwed down to it. There is no tweaking of chamber size, at least not as far as I can tell.

 

Caj

[caj]

Oh, wait, I forgot to add something very important.

 

You know when I said that the average push- and pull-notes on my layout are 6 half steps apart? That really means that about half of the buttons are 5 half-steps apart, and the other half are about 7 half-steps apart.

 

5 half-steps is a perfect fourth, 7 a perfect fifth. That means the wavelengths of the push and pull notes are in a low whole-number ratio, i.e. 4:3 or 3:2.

 

So, if the chamber is supposed to be sized depending on the note frequency, this might be good.

 

Caj

[Frank Edgley]

Clive: "Frank, my question about tuning chamber sizes just occurred to me as I typed up my experience with my one and only concertina. I hope it didn't come over as an aggressive contradiction of what you had said.:

 

Reply: Not at all.

 

Caj: "Now, this means that each reed chamber is just the same size as (well, just a bit smaller than) the aluminum reed block screwed down to it. There is no tweaking of chamber size, at least not as far as I can tell."

 

Reply: Well, actually, though not optimal, the longer reeds have longer chambers and thus have a greater volume (of space, not sound volume).

 

Caj: "

[Frank Edgley]

(Sorry, I pressed the wrong key.)

 

Caj: "You know when I said that the average push- and pull-notes on my layout are 6 half steps apart? That really means that about half of the buttons are 5 half-steps apart, and the other half are about 7 half-steps apart."

 

Reply: Could you clarify this? I'm not sure what you mean. The G/A is two half steps, B/C is one. I know some are more, like the D/F#, but am I misunderstanding what you mean?

[caj]

Reply: Could you clarify this? I'm not sure what you mean. The G/A is two half steps, B/C is one. I know some are more, like the D/F#, but am I misunderstanding what you mean?

I mean that on my own custom layout, the push- and pull- notes are usually a perfect fourth or a perfect fifth apart.

 

For example, 18 of the buttons are either D/G, A/E, Bb/Eb, C/F, B/F# or C#/G#, in different octaves. The wavelengths of the push- and pull- notes are either in the ratio 4:3, or 3:2.

 

Caj

[Frank Edgley]

Thanks for the clarification.