1970s Clare Concertina Recordings

[geoffwright]

On Sunday nights programme, Áine Hennesey was joined by Neil Wayne and John Tams to talk about their 1970's recording of concertina music, mainly from north and west Clare, which has just been re-issued as a 6-box CD set.

 

Listen again at

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/thelatesession/

[Chris Timson]

I've just got this set, and after having listened to 3 CDs out of the 6 I confess to having mixed feelings about it. The recording quality is immaculate, and I think the playing is technically superb. The speed of the playing is slower than many modern players would deploy, which to me is good, but I still find it all very uninvolving. One tune just seems to merge into the next for me with little to differentiate it from its neighbours. I guess I just can't take that much Irish music in one, or even a few, goes

 

Chris

[david_boveri]

I've just got this set, and after having listened to 3 CDs out of the 6 I confess to having mixed feelings about it. The recording quality is immaculate, and I think the playing is technically superb. The speed of the playing is slower than many modern players would deploy, which to me is good, but I still find it all very uninvolving. One tune just seems to merge into the next for me with little to differentiate it from its neighbours. I guess I just can't take that much Irish music in one, or even a few, goes

 

Chris

 

give it time. even though i grew up with irish music in my family and played it a lot, when i first started to devote my listening time entirely to irish music, i had the same experience.

 

likewise, when i got a job at a local restaurant, all the music sounded the same to me. i couldnt tell the difference between popular/rock songs! as far as i could tell, there were two tunes on the radio, rockish and hip hop, just as my brother says there are two types of irish tunes: slower or faster.

 

if you're not particularly interested in irish music then there is no reason to give it the chance. i have found it can take months of diligent listening for a new type of music to "sink in" to the point where it all doesnt sound the same. i havent had the time to do it with jazz music, but i can at least start to appreciate it (even though it all sounds the same).

[JimLucas]

...my brother says there are two types of irish tunes: slower or faster.

I'm sure he's wrong. There are at least three kinds:

• various amounts of did-dl-y -- jigs
  
• lots of did-dle did-dle -- reels and polkas
  
• bump-ty bump-ty -- hornpipes
  

i have found it can take months of diligent listening for a new type of music to "sink in" to the point where it all doesnt sound the same. i havent had the time to do it with jazz music, but i can at least start to appreciate it (even though it all sounds the same).

One thing that I've found helps in learning about the variety in a new form of music is to listen to a mediocre exponent of that form -- someone who really does make everything sound the same -- and compare "the real stuff" with that. I find the differences can be very enlightening.

[ceemonster]

yeah....i recently loaned the live irish concertina-accordion recording by tony macmahon & noel hill, "in knocknagree," to a friend so they could hear my musical obsession "straight, no chaser." to me, this is musical white lightning---fire in the dance tunes, ice in the slow airs, pounding of the dancers' feet, it's all there.....but the reaction was that it all sounded alike. the truth is, that is the same about any genre music---baroque, delta blues, classical indian, cajun, you name it. unless you have that little button in there waiting to be activated when the music that pushes your personal buttons is played. and then it all sounds so endlessly, wonderfully different, doesn't it.....

[m3838]

the truth is, that is the same about any genre music---baroque, delta blues, classical indian, cajun, you name it. unless you have that little button in there waiting to be activated when the music that pushes your personal buttons is played. and then it all sounds so endlessly, wonderfully different, doesn't it.....

 

Probably close to 90% of Baroque or whatever music is written by highly skilled , trained and professional mediocrities. No wonder it all sounds the same. It does sound the same, that was the whole idea, to write like somebody else, who was popular. What distinguishes this kind of music is the performance and conducting. Adaptations to different instruments, different mood of players. Of course, when we deal with geniuses, like Bach, Mozart or alike (alike?) - it's different matter, but not always. Bach was not very popular in his time, I guess, he was too innovative, too different.

Folk music by definition sounds the same within a style. Folk music doesn't ponder to upper classes' need for entertainment, it provides the sound, that is rich enough, so it can be interesting to listen to, without it having to be eloquently diverse. It's like chanting, it stops the time. And when the time is stopped, it doesn't matter, how many times the verse is repeated.

When you get used to it, you start noticing and become fond of many petty variations, but I think those are not imperative. What's imperative is the drive (or the button), that gets you. Once you are hooked, you can get into details.

So I agree with the "Button" analogy, but think that button comes first, not after months of laborious "learning".

[Chris Drinkwater]

I've just got this set, and after having listened to 3 CDs out of the 6 I confess to having mixed feelings about it. The recording quality is immaculate, and I think the playing is technically superb. The speed of the playing is slower than many modern players would deploy, which to me is good, but I still find it all very uninvolving. One tune just seems to merge into the next for me with little to differentiate it from its neighbours. I guess I just can't take that much Irish music in one, or even a few, goes

 

Chris

 

I have hesitated about buying this set for exactly the same reasons as you state above, Chris. It's a shame I can't borrow a set to evlauate it and try before I buy. Do you think Mr Wayne will give me a refund or swap it for something else if i don't like it?

 

Chris

[Dan Worrall]

I've just got this set, and after having listened to 3 CDs out of the 6 I confess to having mixed feelings about it. The recording quality is immaculate, and I think the playing is technically superb. The speed of the playing is slower than many modern players would deploy, which to me is good, but I still find it all very uninvolving. One tune just seems to merge into the next for me with little to differentiate it from its neighbours. I guess I just can't take that much Irish music in one, or even a few, goes

 

Chris

Ouch, Chris! I usually agree with you...but not this time!

 

I think that with any sort of traditional music, you need to have some tangible connection with the environment from which it came before you can 'get it'. I never really 'got' Morris dancing (it looked like a bunch of middle aged white guys with hankies and way too much beer) until Roger Digby took me to Bampton. Very early morning, still dew on the grass, these guys dancing (very gracefully and purposefully, I might add) on people's lawns and in the street of a nice old town, to an impeccable fiddler who tried not to make it sound too fancy, with just a few locals watching them in the early going and a lot of smiles all 'round....I finally 'got it', and grew to really like it, handkerchiefs and all. Same with English sessions....when I found a good one over in your neck of the woods, and saw how it worked (and saw that lukewarm ale is really pretty good), in a country place far from the madding crowds, I think I 'got it'. Great stuff! I think I could show you Texas fiddling in such a light, with a little prep.

 

With Irish music, listening to a CD in your living room, in my opinion, will not allow you to get it very easily. Could happen, I suppose...but chances are it will not. If you go to the west of Ireland and stay as close to the rural landscape as you can, and find someone local above the age of 60, soft spoken, in a traditional cottage in such a rural area to invite you over late in the evening when music is being played (forget the pubs, IMHO)....with a turf fire going and a spot of something strong to drink, preferably with a storm going outside...no matter how good the player is, you will likely get it. To me, Chris Droney's playing on that particular album in that collection....no piano accompanists, no ceili band stuff...sounds high and lonesome, on some tunes just like a night of inclement weather way back of the beyond. It is hard to 'get' that anymore, especially as Ireland gets to be more cosmopolitan, commercial and prosperous....hence all the more modern types of commercial Irish bands today....but it is well worth trying to find. Forgive me if you have already done all that and still don't really get it. Those recordings are special to me, because they are not all gussied up by studios and guitarists, and they happened while there were still some of the old style farmer-players around. Like Scan Tester, really, in his day (tho he was not a farmer)...just playing what comes naturally. No music reading, no lessons, no practicing....just do.

End of soapbox. Best,

Dan

[geoffwright]

The cds are available individually - You don't HAVE to buy them all at once.

[Frank Edgley]

There is some truth to what has been said about the apparent sameness when listening to Irish traditional music. Much of it is the fault of the musicians, who tend to play an overabundance of reels. Most sessions I have participated in, or observed are mostly reels. That can be very satisfying for the musicians as they are really into the genre, but not so for casual observers. There are many types of Irish traditional music: reels, jigs, hornpipes, polkas, slides, barndances, mazurkas, quadrilles, flings, marches, galops, airs, and O'Carolan pieces. This list is taken mostly from the collection "Boss Murphy, Musical Legacy---Irish Music from the Area of North Cork" from Noah' Ark Press, Market House, Churchtown, Mallow, Co. Cork, Ireland, for those of you who might want a copy. Some of these tune types are no longer popular, probably due, in part, to the limitations on allowable tunes at official Comhaltas competitions. (This list of allowable tunes has recently been expanded.) But reels, and to a lesser degree, jigs are fun to play, and often musicians do not give consideration to what will entertain the casual observer, being so much "into" their music they cannot appreciate the point of view of these listeners.

 

One disappointment I had with the Irish Concertina Styles CD is that the tracks do not identify who the various players are with the tracks. The only ones identified with particular tracks are the tracks added which were not in the original LP. Some of the extra tracks added to "The Flowing Tide" have tunes misnamed, as well.

[Chris Timson]

Ouch, Chris! I usually agree with you...but not this time!

It's OK, I'm not looking for agreement. I am quite ready to accept the opinion of those who know what they are talking about as to the value of these recordings, but I thought it might be interesting to put down my reactions and see what others thought. The quality of the replies is up to the usual high standard of the forum.

 

Irish music as played in England I find deeply unsatisfying and I doubt if any combination of experiences will ever change that. On the other hand I had a glorious couple of evenings in a pub well off the tourist track behind the Four Courts in Dublin a couple of years back, and I guess I'm still looking for a recording that will catch some of the flavour of those evenings.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

 

PS I wouldn't usually go as far as buying a 6 CD set, it's probably asking for trouble, but we were buying a set for Anne's nephew anyway.

[bill_mchale]

Irish music as played in England I find deeply unsatisfying and I doubt if any combination of experiences will ever change that. On the other hand I had a glorious couple of evenings in a pub well off the tourist track behind the Four Courts in Dublin a couple of years back, and I guess I'm still looking for a recording that will catch some of the flavour of those evenings.

 

Have you tried drinking a pint of stout or a shot of Irish Whiskey (or heck why not both?) while listening to the CDs? That might help with the flavor .

 

--

Bill

[Chris Timson]

Have you tried drinking a pint of stout or a shot of Irish Whiskey (or heck why not both?) while listening to the CDs? That might help with the flavor .

Why thank you, Bill, I don't mind if I do!

 

Chris

[ceemonster]

the truth is, that is the same about any genre music---baroque, delta blues, classical indian, cajun, you name it. unless you have that little button in there waiting to be activated when the music that pushes your personal buttons is played. and then it all sounds so endlessly, wonderfully different, doesn't it.....

 

Probably close to 90% of Baroque or whatever music is written by highly skilled , trained and professional mediocrities. No wonder it all sounds the same. It does sound the same, that was the whole idea, to write like somebody else, who was popular. What distinguishes this kind of music is the performance and conducting. Adaptations to different instruments, different mood of players. Of course, when we deal with geniuses, like Bach, Mozart or alike (alike?) - it's different matter, but not always. Bach was not very popular in his time, I guess, he was too innovative, too different.

Folk music by definition sounds the same within a style. Folk music doesn't ponder to upper classes' need for entertainment, it provides the sound, that is rich enough, so it can be interesting to listen to, without it having to be eloquently diverse. It's like chanting, it stops the time. And when the time is stopped, it doesn't matter, how many times the verse is repeated.

When you get used to it, you start noticing and become fond of many petty variations, but I think those are not imperative. What's imperative is the drive (or the button), that gets you. Once you are hooked, you can get into details.

So I agree with the "Button" analogy, but think that button comes first, not after months of laborious "learning".

 

[the button comes first]

 

i agree. i was "given" 6 or 7 years of classical piano lessons and all sorts of classical "enrichment" exposure as a kid, and my interest in classical music today remains limited at best (though i do love certain pockets of it). it was later, lucky, encounters with the genres of music that activated the "buttons" that set me on a course of playing, listening, learning, and all sorts of wonderful musical addicitons.... i think the only time cultivating an interest through laborious "learning" works, is when there is actually a "button" already in there, waiting to be pushed....

[McIsog]

The cds are available individually - You don't HAVE to buy them all at once.

 

This is a good suggestion. 6 disks is alot to buy at once.

 

Synopsis:

 

FCLAR01 - The Russell Family of Doolin, Co Clare - 26 Tracks about 50 minutes

FCLAR02 - Clare Concertinas - Bernard O'Sullivan & Tommy McMahon - 17 Tracks about 42 minutes

FCLAR03 - The Flowing Tide - Chris Droney - 21 Tracks about 58 minutes

FCLAR04 - John Kelly - Irish Traditional Concertina & Fiddle Music - 21 Tracks, 44 minutes

FCLAR05 - Tommy McMahon & Bernard O'Sullivan - Irish Traditional Concertina Music of Co Clare - 16 Tracks, 40 minutes

FCLAR06 - Irish Traditional Concertina Styles - Twelve great players from the 1970s - 22 Tracks, 42 minutes

 

I liked the first and last disks best. First for its fun, the singing and stories. I wished I was there. The last for the variety and depth of the 'tina playing. But I would not return any.

 

Cheers,

Dan

[Takayuki YAGI]

The cds are available individually - You don't HAVE to buy them all at once.

 

This is a good suggestion. 6 disks is alot to buy at once.

 

Synopsis:

 

 

Thank you for the synopsis I'd like to inform that each disk has additional tracks to the previous release.

 

FCLAR01 - The Russell Family of Doolin, Co Clare - 26 Tracks about 50 minutes + 7 Tracks

FCLAR02 - Clare Concertinas - Bernard O'Sullivan & Tommy McMahon - 17 Tracks about 42 minutes + 10 Tracks

FCLAR03 - The Flowing Tide - Chris Droney - 21 Tracks about 58 minutes + 6 Tracks

FCLAR04 - John Kelly - Irish Traditional Concertina & Fiddle Music - 21 Tracks, 44 minutes + 11 Tracks

FCLAR05 - Tommy McMahon & Bernard O'Sullivan - Irish Traditional Concertina Music of Co Clare - 16 Tracks, 40 minutes + 13 Tracks

FCLAR06 - Irish Traditional Concertina Styles - Twelve great players from the 1970s - 22 Tracks, 42 minutes + 8 Tracks

 

Personally, I liked the Tommy McMahon & Bernard O'Sullivan 's 2 disks the best.

 

 

Taka

[ceemonster]

The cds are available individually - You don't HAVE to buy them all at once.

 

This is a good suggestion. 6 disks is alot to buy at once.

 

Synopsis:

 

 

Thank you for the synopsis I'd like to inform that each disk has additional tracks to the previous release.

 

FCLAR01 - The Russell Family of Doolin, Co Clare - 26 Tracks about 50 minutes + 7 Tracks

FCLAR02 - Clare Concertinas - Bernard O'Sullivan & Tommy McMahon - 17 Tracks about 42 minutes + 10 Tracks

FCLAR03 - The Flowing Tide - Chris Droney - 21 Tracks about 58 minutes + 6 Tracks

FCLAR04 - John Kelly - Irish Traditional Concertina & Fiddle Music - 21 Tracks, 44 minutes + 11 Tracks

FCLAR05 - Tommy McMahon & Bernard O'Sullivan - Irish Traditional Concertina Music of Co Clare - 16 Tracks, 40 minutes + 13 Tracks

FCLAR06 - Irish Traditional Concertina Styles - Twelve great players from the 1970s - 22 Tracks, 42 minutes + 8 Tracks

 

Personally, I liked the Tommy McMahon & Bernard O'Sullivan 's 2 disks the best.

 

 

Taka

 

yes, but are the "additional tracks" CONCERTINA tracks? i'm thinking specifically of the russell family cd. i don't want it unless the extra tracks have packie playing concertina on them....

[Takayuki YAGI]

yes, but are the "additional tracks" CONCERTINA tracks? i'm thinking specifically of the russell family cd. i don't want it unless the extra tracks have packie playing concertina on them....

 

FYI, 3 of the 7 extra tracks of the Russell family CD, you can hear Pakie playing concertina with Micho and Gussie (not solo).

 

 

All the best,

 

Taka

Edited September 18, 2007 by Takayuki YAGI