Position Of Instrument On Leg

[stuart estell]

Just to add more confusion, I drive the bellows with my left hand, resting the right bellows frame on my leg, when playing either anglo or duet...

[Hooves]

I saw John Williams, 5 time Irish Concertina Champion, play ata cletic festival. he was restign his bellows on his knee, I believe he does this in his video as well, but I will need to watch it again (no longer have a VHS player).

 

I thought it was strange when I first saw this, as I had read you should hold one end on your leg and let the bellows move freely, I'm no pro, but thats how I do it, I can't help but think resting the bellows over my kneee would damage the bellows in short order.

 

Bellows ain't cheap!

[wntrmute]

On one of the tutorial tapes I have, the teacher says never allow the bellows of the instrument to run on your pants leg because it will be worn out more quickly by this.

I would have thought the obvious solution would be to not wear trousers.

[JimLucas]

On one of the tutorial tapes I have, the teacher says never allow the bellows of the instrument to run on your pants leg because it will be worn out more quickly by this.

I would have thought the obvious solution would be to not wear trousers.

In which case, would hairy legs be an advantage, or a disadvantage?

[david_boveri]

everyone's got it about right. if the bellows come off the leg, then you have more control. i prefer the left side on the leg because of all the little finger-button usage. occasionally, i put the bellows on the leg as i find the concertina "plays itself" better, but then i just try to get that same feel with the bellows off the leg, as again, there is more control.

 

in the end, it doesnt really matter. i can play the anglo concertina just fine without using the straps at all! (i could do a video if anybody is interested...) i can't do as many chords as often, but i can get just about the same tone, lift, and ornamentation as when i use the hand straps. i prefer to play with my hands in the straps, the bellows on my leg, my arms set up to use the proper muscles, my fingers relaxed enough. i think it makes the whole goings on a lot easier (straps are a good help!)

Edited September 10, 2007 by david_boveri

[Dana Johnson]

I saw John Williams, 5 time Irish Concertina Champion, play ata cletic festival. he was restign his bellows on his knee, I believe he does this in his video as well, but I will need to watch it again (no longer have a VHS player).

 

I thought it was strange when I first saw this, as I had read you should hold one end on your leg and let the bellows move freely, I'm no pro, but thats how I do it, I can't help but think resting the bellows over my kneee would damage the bellows in short order.

 

Bellows ain't cheap!

There are a number of fine musicians who drape the concertina bellows across the knee, and push or pull from both ends ( Father Charlie Cohen for one ) It is how they learned to play and provides pretty good bellows control. Regardless, there is still the bellows wear to deal with, and the key here is what is moving against what. Many people who play the draped style open and close the bellows with a twisting motion which focuses most of the opening and closing on the top of the bellows. This limits the motion of the bellows on the knee and the wear, (and also the maximum bellows usage), but since most good players hardly ever use more than a few inches of the bellows, the wear from the occasional long chord is pretty small. In the long run, the end frame on the knee and the rest of the bellows free will outlast the other, but the difference depends as much on the quality of your technique as anything.

Dana

[Dieppe]

My 2 cents... if you practice holding the 'tina in the air, you'll build up arm muscles and not need to rest it on anything or use a strap.

 

AND you can tell the wife (hubby, girlfriend, soon-to-be-ex-girlfriend, etc.) that you're just exercising!

 

 

Seriously though, since I've been playing without supporting it I've developed more muscles where I didn't have 'em before, and I can play longer periods without getting tired.

[allan atlas]

DEAR DIEPPE: see the photos in my method book CONTEMPLATING THE CONCERTINA............there's no one way to do it. . . . .allan

[Dieppe]

DEAR DIEPPE: see the photos in my method book CONTEMPLATING THE CONCERTINA............there's no one way to do it. . . . .allan

 

Oh, yes I know there's as many ways to hold a concertina as there are people playing them! Probably Anglo vs. English would make a difference too as well?

 

I had a thought earlier for a joke (or bumpersticker?), but I'm not sure it's refined yet. "Anglo players do it in shorter strokes" or something like that. Trying to figure out what the EC equivalent would be..

 

 

Patrick

[asdormire]

On one of the tutorial tapes I have, the teacher says never allow the bellows of the instrument to run on your pants leg because it will be worn out more quickly by this.

I would have thought the obvious solution would be to not wear trousers.

 

Which is why I think we need to encourage more young ladies to play concertina. They have far better legs than any of us old men.

 

Alan

[m3838]

My own feeling is that resting the concertina -- bellows or end -- on my leg actually slows down my bellows work. I prefer the greater freedom of motion available to me by keeping the concertina suspended rather than resting on my leg, even when seated. But I don't claim that that's best for everyone, and it's also a option that can be developed later, once you no longer need to concentrate on your fingers and bellows control.

But you mostly play single line melodies with ocasional harmony.

I think playing in chordal style while not resting the bellows on the knee is impossible.

Even with ocastional harmonies how do you do it with concertina in the air?

I also believe that to use Concertina's ergonomic advantage over Accordion one must work the bellows with both hands, in symmetric fashion. Otherwise excersize or not, if you play with one shoulder above the other - it's not good.

But in the Hey day, how did they do this onstage? Wearing dreaded neck strap or collar clamps?

I agree that if you fan bellows out and in - the wear will be minimal, if any.

After all, I hope you all noticed that concertina's cabinets (or ends) are not at flush level with bellows edges. Perhabs it was done to eliminate the rubbing on the knee. This way:

[ragtimer]

I think playing in chordal style while not resting the bellows on the knee is impossible.

Even with ocastional harmonies how do you do it with concertina in the air?

And maybe it's just me, but I find it hard to play both sides of my Duet without resting *some* part of the instrument on a knee.

I also believe that to use Concertina's ergonomic advantage over Accordion one must work the bellows with both hands, in symmetric fashion. Otherwise excersize or not, if you play with one shoulder above the other - it's not good.

I agree, symmetric squeezing is best most of the time.

 

But this past Saturday I played a gig with our band where everyone was miked, and had to be -- it was a large outdoor venue. I had only one mike, which I aimed at my right side, since I figured my melody lines were more important than the chords I was squeezing out on the left side.

 

When I had a solo line, I held the right end of the tina up by the mike and pumped with the left hand, which did not attempt to play anything at all during that passage. Not a mode that I would feel comfy playing for more than 32 bars, but it did work.

 

I guess the moral is that you can stand almost any odd way of playing for one pass thru a tune.

 

Would hate to play an EC with just one mic

I agree that if you fan bellows out and in - the wear will be minimal, if any.

After all, I hope you all noticed that concertina's cabinets (or ends) are not at flush level with bellows edges. Perhabs it was done to eliminate the rubbing on the knee.

The narrowness of the bellows relative to the ends, is helpful to avoid rubbing only if you never open the bellows very far. Granted, that's the best Anglo technique, but we Duet and EC players often open the bellows way up. Or is it just me? --Mike K.

[JimLucas]

My own feeling is that resting the concertina -- bellows or end -- on my leg actually slows down my bellows work. I prefer the greater freedom of motion available to me by keeping the concertina suspended rather than resting on my leg, even when seated. But I don't claim that that's best for everyone, and it's also a option that can be developed later, once you no longer need to concentrate on your fingers and bellows control.

But you mostly play single line melodies with ocasional harmony.

How would you know? Have you ever seen me perform? Or just listened to a few entries on The Recorded Tunes Link Page? The latter are an old sample, including only work on the English, and far from covering everything I did even then on the English, yet I would say that at least 8 of the 24 entries are definitely more than just "single line melodies with occasional harmony".

 

I think playing in chordal style while not resting the bellows on the knee is impossible.

Jody Kruskal, Harry Scurfield, David Barnert, John Roberts, and John Kirkpatrick - among many others - are doing the impossible? Maybe someone should tell them, so they'll be unable to do it any longer?

 

Even with ocastional harmonies how do you do it with concertina in the air?

Very easily, thank you, at least on the English. And I've explained in many posts how I hold the English, so I won't repeat it here.

 

Because of the different handles, I do find the anglo and duets a bit more difficult to control while holding the instrument suspended, but the more I do it, the easier it becomes.

 

I also believe that to use Concertina's ergonomic advantage over Accordion one must work the bellows with both hands, in symmetric fashion. Otherwise excersize or not, if you play with one shoulder above the other - it's not good.

Nor truly damaging, unless you're extreme about it. Most people have at least as much asymmetry when playing guitar, writing, using a computer mouse, or even walking.

 

But in the Hey day, how did they do this onstage? Wearing dreaded neck strap or collar clamps?

I don't recall any such "aids" in any of the photos I've seen, not even where a performer is playing one of the larger instruments.

[Hooves]

But in the Hey day, how did they do this onstage? Wearing dreaded neck strap or collar clamps?

 

 

Heres a web page with a picture of Henry Crabb (scroll down a bit to see it). He's playing a Crane Duet standing up without any neck strap. Not sure if this qualifies as the "hey day".

 

http://www.scraggy.net/tina/

Edited September 14, 2007 by Hooves

[m3838]

But in the Hey day, how did they do this onstage? Wearing dreaded neck strap or collar clamps?

 

 

Heres a web page with a picture of Henry Crabb (scroll down a bit to see it). He's playing a Crane Duet standing up without any neck strap. Not sure if this qualifies as the "hey day".

 

http://www.scraggy.net/tina/

Sure, I see how you hold instruments with little "ears" on both sides, but how do you support Englsh? The other night I tried to hold my Jackie, using pinkey rests, and it actually works. Clearly the pinkey rests were designed for two fingers on them, and two working the melody. With harmony you would use only the pinkey on the rest, which is straining, but then you have three fingers per hand to work harmonies. However, with restricted pinkey ring finger is not that agile. So want it or not, for harmony playing on English you have to sit down and use all four. And want it or not, friction problem arises. That's why accordions have replaceable bellows tape. Concertinas don't, why? I'd rather wear through expencive $50 pants, than inexpencive $500 bellows.

P.S.

No, the picture on the website is not the "Hey Day". I don't think photorgraphy was yet invented in Concertina's Hey Day.

[Mark Evans]

So want it or not, for harmony playing on English you have to sit down and use all four. And want it or not, friction problem arises. That's why accordions have replaceable bellows tape. Concertinas don't, why? I'd rather wear through expencive $50 pants, than inexpencive $500 bellows.

 

Michael, you can stand and deliver harmony on the English with just the pinky on the rest. With the arthritis settled into both thumbs and wrists, I can still manage. Sitting is better for a long set and no need to wear out the bellows. Ancor the instrument on one leg and work the bellows without contact with trousers. A good set of bellows well treated with outlast your life time and your offsprings as well .

[tamborileru]

If it can help you, this question is the same taht happens to me whith the traditional clothes and the tabor.

 

Whith the concertina, I don't put it on my leg. In the future... perhaps. But not yet.

[Animaterra]

At NESI on Saturday afternoon, I happened to pick up my Jeffries "wrong side up" and noticed for the first time how worn the bellows are on the "thigh side". Now, I've not been playing it for more than a little over 3 years, and could not have been solely responsible for the amount of wear, but I took it to Bob Snope to see if I should be worried. He did a great trick- opened the bellows, licked his lips, and held the instrument up to his mouth (no, he didn't kiss it!), testing to see if he could detect a tiny leak at each fold. Nope, it's still nice and tight- but I'm glad I'd already begun practicing holding the instrument at chest-height. It's a heavy instrument to maintain such a position for long (for me at least ) but I'm going to try not to add to the wear any more than I can help.

 

I know a little of the recent history of the instrument, but from the shiny worn leather I saw, I think I can guess it had at least one other owner I'll never know of- probably the original owner, who held it on his (?) right thigh and played a lot!