Accompaniment Advice Needed

[Mikefule]

I am new to Anglo. I come from a background of playing harmonica and melodeon for and with the Morris, so I have a fairly large "bank" of tunes I can already play on a diatonic push pull instrument. For now, I'm aiming for the style of mainly single note melody on the right hand, and simple rhythmic accompaniment on the left. So far, I'm playing variants of "oom-pah" interspersed with block chords of 2 or more notes on the off beat. I haven't really strayed off the 3 chord trick yet, but I am crossing the rows, and I can find the relevant chords in the "wrong" direction.

 

My Anglo is G/D. I am still playing everything (or almost everything) in G.

 

So, here's the question:

 

Many Morris tunes go down below the tonic and onto the top button on the left hand. In G, the little run of notes, D E F# G leading up to the tonic is common. Many phrases also Have the reverse of that. The D and the E are on the left hand.

 

I can find the right chords to harmonise with the D and the E, either on the push or the pull (I know about the E/D button on the accidental row) but I can't really find a way of making the accompaniment sound "clean and uncluttered".

 

It's alright if a phrase ends "hanging" on one of these two notes, but when there is a run of them, or they are part of a run (e.g. near the end of Black Joke®; Constant Billy, The Webley, and - slightly different, but same problem - Orange in Bloom) it sounds awful.

 

It's probably not an easy question to answer in words, but can anyone point me in a direction? Any simple "tricks of the trade"? At the moment, I am having to choose the tunes I practise according to whether they include the D E F# G run or any "fast notes" on that top button on the left hand.

 

Thanks.

[Richard Morse]

Many Morris tunes go down below the tonic and onto the top button on the left hand. In G, the little run of notes, D E F# G leading up to the tonic is common. I can find the right chords to harmonise with the D and the E, either on the push or the pull (I know about the E/D button on the accidental row) but I can't really find a way of making the accompaniment sound "clean and uncluttered".

I find that passage easier to deal with if I play *all* those notes on the *pull*. IOW, the left hand D E F# G would be outer row 4th button, middle row 5th button, right hand middle row 1st button, then push right hand middle row 1st button.

 

There are a few ways to go about that pull run of three notes, but I tend to like that choice. And there are quite a number bass and chord notes to play with them as well. Often I'll just be simple about it and hold down the left hand middle row 3rd button while I play the D E (and sometimes the F# too though often not (for clarity and contrast) an d hit the middle row 3rd button pushing when I get to the G on the right side. Or more left hand notes... whatever.

 

At least I hope this will give you an idea from which you can explore further. Have fun!

 

-- Rich --

[Alan Day]

The problem you are having is the same as trying to play the Anglo Duet style.The basic idea is that you smoothly play the bellows on the push then on the pull.The fact that the chord you want is in the other direction to that which you are going is the obvious problem.One trick is to use slight pressure on the air button when playing a grace note (s) or even single note in the opposite direction , to give you enough air to play the chord you wish to play. Or alternativly find the same chord in the opposite direction by using the accidentals.The drone button is a usefull opposite direction tool. To run through the scale on the push and then on the pull opens up possibilities and well worth the time and practice to be able to do it naturaly.Strangely something I was practicing today.After my performance a few more weeks are required.

Al

[PeterT]

My Anglo is G/D. I am still playing everything (or almost everything) in G.

Hi Mike,

 

I can think of two options. I play a C/G, but the sames "rules" apply.

 

(1) If you are playing solo, you can pick your key. Some of these tunes might fit the instrument better in D.

 

[For a while, I had a G/D but generally used the C/G box fingerings for G&D, so many of the tunes came out in D or A, which "amused" the melodeon players. I quickly reverted to the C/G.]

 

(2) Try shunting the part of the melody, which drops onto the left hand, up an octave. An old, but effective, trick. I sometimes have to do the reverse of this when I play in G on the C/G, otherwise I'm right up at the squeaky end of the concertina.

 

Regards,

Peter.

[Dan Worrall]

Mike,

 

I agree with Peter's suggestion of dropping down to key of D. William Kimber (who used a CG) would drop some of 'those' tunes down to the G row (D on your box) for that reason. Shepherd's Hey is a good example. Most of Kimber's repertoire is in C, but this problem tune he handled by dropping it to G; these ones done this way sound higher of course. If you try Shepherd's Hey in C (G your box), you'll find it has that left hand problem, but play it in G (D your box) it keeps nicely to the right hand.

 

Some tunes however Kimber kept to C (G yours) even though it meant dealing with the left hand issue; Blue Eyed Stranger and The Wonder are two that come to mind. If you listen to his CD you can see how he dealt with that...not too badly, in my opinion. Check my book out of the library and you'll see his arrangement. It can be done.

 

BTW, Kimber often would drop down an octave in the middle of a melody when the tune got too high....witness the B part of Bean Setting. I've noticed that Irish players do that too, especially when playing in octaves. It's amazing how one will not hear that octave jump even when listening intently. A good trick to know.

 

Cheers,

Dan

[JimLucas]

Shepherd's Hey is a good example. Most of Kimber's repertoire is in C, but this problem tune he handled by dropping it to G; these ones done this way sound higher of course.

Interesting terminology: You describe raising the pitch by a fifth as "dropping it"?

 

I know that in standard illustrations of the anglo, the G row is "lower" on the page than the C row, but I would never have thought to describe it that way. I suspect that many people have never seen such an illustration, and that's not the orientation of the instrument either when being played or when resting on a table.

 

Or do you have some other reason for choosing that terminology?

[Dan Worrall]

Shepherd's Hey is a good example. Most of Kimber's repertoire is in C, but this problem tune he handled by dropping it to G; these ones done this way sound higher of course.

Interesting terminology: You describe raising the pitch by a fifth as "dropping it"?

 

I know that in standard illustrations of the anglo, the G row is "lower" on the page than the C row, but I would never have thought to describe it that way. I suspect that many people have never seen such an illustration, and that's not the orientation of the instrument either when being played or when resting on a table.

 

Or do you have some other reason for choosing that terminology?

 

try "dropping it (down) to (the) G (row)". As I mentioned, 'these ones done this way sound higher of course'.

 

Some, perhaps many new GD players pick that tuning that so that they can (at first) play along the rows in the same keys as fiddlers...so it is easy to think of the home keys and 'dropping down' to the lower row for key of D. Once they start playing in an English chorded style, there will be much more cross row fingering of course, and even the basic scales are crossfingered.

 

Some pre-Noel, old fashioned along-the-row Irish concertina players I know will speak of playing a G tune 'up' on the C row as opposed to 'down' on the G row. I like the old style, and I guess that is where I picked that term up. Also, Bertram Levy speaks of moving the basic fingering position 'down' to the third row, in his tutor (see p 38 and other places in that book). Seems common usage to me...or so I thought!

[PeterT]

Seems common usage to me...or so I thought!

Yet again we have an Anglo problem which does not occur in the keyboard layouts of either English or Duet.

[m3838]

I haven't really strayed off the 3 chord trick yet, but I am crossing the rows, and I can find the relevant chords in the "wrong" direction.

 

For me The Anglo's appeal was that it forced me out of constant Oompa. The problem of the chord in the right direction gave me no choice (on 20 button AC), but to quit the chroding, while I'm in the left hand. To my ear this sounds very appealing, not pumping the chords all the time. So the problem you are describing may be viewed as blessing, a s it may give you the ease of sound and style.

In my case, to defeat the dreaded Oompa, I had to quit AC and turn to EC. But if you are stronger than me, I'd play those simple Morris tunes along the row (it sounds best to me), and if the chord is not easily there, drop it and play octaves instead. I think for Morris rhythm and jumpiness is very important, and I would not play it "smoothly" on the pull. It's not a symphony, after all.

P.S.

My introduction to Morris was through Dave Mallison Melodeon Method. Then I researched videos of Morris Dancing and was surprized by low level of mastery happily displayed. I'm still eagerly looking for some good examples of Morris dancing, so help me out here, please. Esp. those attempts to clash the sticks in time. There is one video with interview from the accordion player, it was good. I gorgot the name.

Are there any more? Because it looks to me like if you are drunk enough, found a stick and put some cowbells to your ankles...

[hjcjones]

If you drop the tune onto the left hand while also playing chords it's quite difficult to keep the melody notes crisp and distinct from the chord. It can be done, but it takes practice. I'm now having to get to grips with this, having just acquired a 31-key G/D - on my 40-key C/G there is a degree of overlap, and if I can I prefer to use the extra buttons to keep the melody on the right hand.

 

Switching octaves avoids this and has a sound traditional basis. However if you can play the tune as it should be without having to compromise because of the instrument, then I believe that's preferable. However with anglos, compromise is often necessary.

[Woody]

try "dropping it (down) to (the) G (row)". As I mentioned, 'these ones done this way sound higher of course'.

 

Some, perhaps many new GD players pick that tuning that so that they can (at first) play along the rows in the same keys as fiddlers...so it is easy to think of the home keys and 'dropping down' to the lower row for key of D. Once they start playing in an English chorded style, there will be much more cross row fingering of course, and even the basic scales are crossfingered.

 

Some pre-Noel, old fashioned along-the-row Irish concertina players I know will speak of playing a G tune 'up' on the C row as opposed to 'down' on the G row. I like the old style, and I guess that is where I picked that term up. Also, Bertram Levy speaks of moving the basic fingering position 'down' to the third row, in his tutor (see p 38 and other places in that book). Seems common usage to me...or so I thought!

 

Well I understood what you meant Dan.

 

- W

[JimLucas]

Shepherd's Hey is a good example. Most of Kimber's repertoire is in C, but this problem tune he handled by dropping it to G; these ones done this way sound higher of course.

Interesting terminology: You describe raising the pitch by a fifth as "dropping it"? ...

try "dropping it (down) to (the) G (row)". As I mentioned, 'these ones done this way sound higher of course'.

Dan, you seem to have missed my point... and I've certainly missed yours.

 

The G row on a C/G anglo is higher in pitch than the C row. You've said as much. So by what criterion do you consider it to be "down", "lower", or "dropped"? Is "down" supposed to be a direction on the end of the instrument, i.e., toward the handrest? Or is it -- as I might conclude from one part of your reply -- simply someone else's usage that you've adopted willy-nilly, like the use of "diatonic" to mean bisonoric? Or what?

 

Putting the tune onto the G row I understand. That's clear as a blue sky. Calling it "down" is what I don't understand.

[Mikefule]

My introduction to Morris was through Dave Mallison Melodeon Method. Then I researched videos of Morris Dancing and was surprized by low level of mastery happily displayed. I'm still eagerly looking for some good examples of Morris dancing, so help me out here, please. Esp. those attempts to clash the sticks in time. There is one video with interview from the accordion player, it was good. I gorgot the name.

Are there any more? Because it looks to me like if you are drunk enough, found a stick and put some cowbells to your ankles...

 

Firstly, thanks to everyone for the constructive and well thought out advice. Happily, soon after posting, I hit upon the octave instead of chord idea and have been experimenting with that. Also, the idea of shifting a passage up or down an octave is familiar to me from playing 20 reed harmonica.

 

I also agree about the "dreaded oompah" and it is something that I try to avoid as far as possible even on melodeon. I play 1 row, where the chord options are limited, and I us a lot more pah than oom.

 

Now, about the Morris dancing thing...

 

Yes, the average technical standard of dancing is low. Depending what you mean by technical standard. Do you mean the delicacy of the footwork, the precision of the figures, or the vigour of the leaps?

 

Many Morris sides practise once a week throughout the winter. Say 30 weeks of practice, an hour's practice per session, and a repertoire of 30 dances, = an hour a year per dance.

 

The Morris isn't necessarily a "precise" tradition. It is part of the English tradition of inventing something, and doing it reasonably well in an amateur sort of way, like other English inventions: cricket, football, railways...

 

Most Morris melodeon music is mediocre, because the melodeon is superficially easy to play. There are some marvelous melodeonists out there, but they're hard to find. Funny how many melodeonists have picked up my Anglo, knocked a tune out of it with some crashingly discordant handfuls of oompah and given it back to me with a "I can do that" sort of smile. Any handful of notes on the same row will harmonise... not on the pull, they won't.

[m3838]

Yes, the average technical standard of dancing is low. Depending what you mean by technical standard. Do you mean the delicacy of the footwork, the precision of the figures, or the vigour of the leaps?

 

I'm into dancnig through my wife, but also because I was a good dancer during my time.

Too bad I never had formal training. But my wife did.

We generally despise classical Ballett for been overwelminly kitchy, and instead turned to modern American dance from the 20-es (and it's resurrection in the 50-es and 90-es).

Amazingly, Michail Baryshnikov had switched to Mordern American Dance and produces some very interesting shows.

So from this perspective we look at folk dance.

Delicacy, yes. But for me, mostly the presence and the feel of dance. There is no need to present crooked legged, heavy breathing, bad postured, bellied, drunken middle aged men, who not only can't dance, but can't even walk OK. Have you seen some South American Dances, where whomen are plump and thick? The dresses are big and fluffy?

And the women spin and smile and are so gracious - real feast to the eyes. Hawaian dances, beautifully performed by real big mommas? So the physical shape is not the issue. The issue is sence of responsibility, absent from, as you call it, Morris sides. So they keep the audience for fools, it seems.

But...

Are there some good examples?

Youtube perhabs? Websites?

[JimLucas]

The issue is sence of responsibility, absent from, as you call it, Morris sides. So they keep the audience for fools, it seems.

But...

Are there some good examples?

There are indeed good examples. I don't know whether any of them are on the internet. I have videos of some fine examples from the Marlboro Morris Ale in years now long past, but at present I have no means to copy them.

 

There are certainly also bad examples, and in my experience some of the most arrogant (and chauvinistic) teams are among the poorer dancers. But that's really a very different subject.

[Dan Worrall]

try "dropping it (down) to (the) G (row)". As I mentioned, 'these ones done this way sound higher of course'.

 

Some, perhaps many new GD players pick that tuning that so that they can (at first) play along the rows in the same keys as fiddlers...so it is easy to think of the home keys and 'dropping down' to the lower row for key of D. Once they start playing in an English chorded style, there will be much more cross row fingering of course, and even the basic scales are crossfingered.

 

Some pre-Noel, old fashioned along-the-row Irish concertina players I know will speak of playing a G tune 'up' on the C row as opposed to 'down' on the G row. I like the old style, and I guess that is where I picked that term up. Also, Bertram Levy speaks of moving the basic fingering position 'down' to the third row, in his tutor (see p 38 and other places in that book). Seems common usage to me...or so I thought!

 

Well I understood what you meant Dan.

 

- W

 

Thanks, Woody.

 

My vote for a good example of the morris, for what it is worth....I'm certainly not a Brit and this is not my tradition....would be to get thee to Bampton on WhitMonday, early in the morning (say 8am, just as they start), well before the craziness of the midday crowds, and watch the original Bampton side (there are others there and I certainly don't mean to cast any aspersions on them) dance in the street and in peoples gardens in the quiet of the morning hours. Graceful and purposeful, with a lot of class....and yet not a bit artificial as if putting on a big show for the onlookers. Not a drunk in sight (I wasn't there late in the day so don't know what might follow...but doubt any of these guys would disgrace their side with loutish behavior), and a credit to anyone in that tradition. Just my opinion.

[m3838]

... the Marlboro Morris Ale...

 

?

 

The example on the Youtube is so-so.

Their posture is crouched, when jump, bend forward, when kick, don't point the toes (or fix the heels). When wave the ..., mm, those pieces of cloth, don't fix them up, neither down. Everything is very loose and sporadic. And the sneakers!?!

Clearly lost tradition.

Imagine vigorous clashing of the sticks, real men's dance. Unison rhythm! As Colonell Hathi said: "The Military Style!"

Discipline!

Discipline is the thing!

Where was I?

Ah, in irrelevant topic.

[David Barnert]

(I didn't ask the forum to call me an "Advanced Member" and certainly wouldn't want anyone to be misled! Can anyone tell me how to change that title?)

Keep posting until you earn your 4th blue square and you become a "Chatty concertinist." I'm sure there's no other way, short of prevailing upon Mr. Schwartz to change the headings. They are not statements about how well you play the concertina, but how many posts you've submitted.