David Helmore Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Hi! I recently purchased a Lachenal english on ebay (with flat ends) with a section of the fretwork missing. I've already got the replacement bit of wood and another instrument to copy the pattern. What I'm looking for is a 'saw' that will allow me to cut round the pattern. Various internet searches have shown a 'saw' that I can plug in, but seems a bit crazy buying something like this if I'm not going to use it that often. Does anyone know if you can get a handsaw that will do the same thing? Years ago at school I remember one called an 'abrafile' (?) but have had no joy so far in locating one! Any help appreciated! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindizzy Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Does anyone know if you can get a handsaw that will do the same thing? Years ago at school I remember one called an 'abrafile' (?) but have had no joy so far in locating one! Something like a "coping saw" ? (that's a UK term, I forgot to look and sees where you are) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Or even, would you believe, a fret saw? They're like a frame hacksaw with a very deep D (to allow you to manipulate it over a largish piece of wood, and they have a blade thats almost as thin as wire to allow tight turns. Find one in the local antique shop's cheap tools basket, then look for the old book that tells you how to use it competently; there's various tricks. (turn the wood not the saw and make a table/support with a V shaped notch in it to support your work close in as you fret are two basic ones I remember.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Tedrow Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 (edited) Hi! I recently purchased a Lachenal english on ebay (with flat ends) with a section of the fretwork missing. I've already got the replacement bit of wood and another instrument to copy the pattern. What I'm looking for is a 'saw' that will allow me to cut round the pattern. Various internet searches have shown a 'saw' that I can plug in, but seems a bit crazy buying something like this if I'm not going to use it that often. Does anyone know if you can get a handsaw that will do the same thing? Years ago at school I remember one called an 'abrafile' (?) but have had no joy so far in locating one! Any help appreciated! Dave Purchase a "jewellers saw" and some .020 wide 18 tooth per inch Scroll saw blades. Coping saws and Hacksaws are for much rougher work. Bob Edited July 23, 2007 by Bob Tedrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Or even, would you believe, a fret saw?... Find one in the local antique shop's cheap tools basket, You can still buy a new fretsaw. I suspect that this is the same article that Bob calls a jewellers saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Tedrow Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Or even, would you believe, a fret saw? ... Find one in the local antique shop's cheap tools basket, You can still buy a new fretsaw. I suspect that this is the same article that Bob calls a jewellers saw. Mine looks much like this: http://www.axminster.co.uk/pricing/INC/rec...Saws-479849.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart estell Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I have a fretsaw from when I was vaguely thinking about making some alternative wooden ends for my Norman C/G a few years ago. I never got round to it, needless to say, but I'm interested to know what the best technique is for controlling one! I found the fretsaw really difficult to use... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Purchase a "jewellers saw" and some .020 wide 18 tooth per inch Scroll saw blades. The "blades" I like are not flat with teeth along one side, but wire with a spiral ridge running the length. The ridge serves the function of the teeth, but the round cross section of the wire means that turning such a "blade" relative to the wood involves almost no torsional stress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ghent Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I have a fretsaw from when I was vaguely thinking about making some alternative wooden ends for my Norman C/G a few years ago. I never got round to it, needless to say, but I'm interested to know what the best technique is for controlling one! I found the fretsaw really difficult to use... If Geoff Crabb is around he has have a picture of this worth several thousand words, but in general the technique is to mimic a scroll saw. Create a flat working surface and cut a U shaped nick out of the edge a little less than the depth of the saw. Place the wood to be cut on top of the surface, and with your hand under the surface, and with the saw working vertically, guide the piece around the moving saw blade with your left hand. If you can get your mind to command your right hand to to move up and down in one spot without thought then you can have all of your wits about you to move the design with your left. Within about five minutes you will be very glad of the industrial revolution... Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperpunchr Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 (edited) Pre the industrial revolution, a fretsaw blade would be suspended vertically from a spring above the worktable at which you would sit, with a connection directly through or past the edge of the table to a treadle or foot loop, and by tapping your foot or bouncing your leg, you had a neat little saw that left both your hands free to control and turn the wood while your "nervous leg" provided controlled power, to start, stop, speed up or slow down as you deemed necessary...it would not normally have been done by hand in any but the oldest of the old days...essentially this rig was a pedal jigsaw. Depending on the size of the blade and the overall rig, they could be used for anything from fine fretwork up through the "gingerbread trim" for a victorian house or for furniture. Our ancestors were fairly clever people! HERE is a slightly more advanced example with a flywheel and treadle...no electricity required. And Here's a much more elegant one...downright artistic. Truly a craftsman's delight. Doug Edited July 23, 2007 by paperpunchr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dunk Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Hobbies of Dereham, Norfolk sell fretsaw frames and blades. They probably still sell a pressed steel "gull's mouth" cutting table that clamps on the edge of any bench and makes fretting easier. You don't have to buy one though, take an eight inch length of half in thick timber or MDF about four inches wide. in the centre and about three inches from one end drill a half inch diameter hole right through. Now cut a vee from the hole to the nearest end that opens out to about two and a half inches. Clamp this to the edge of the bench with the vee facing you and away you go. Try to keep the blade near the centre of the hole, keep the saw moving steadily up and down and move the workpiece to meet the saw rather than the other way around. If you've never done anything like this before I would recommend that you do lots of practice on bits of scrap plywood. Developing a smooth steady action takes a while - and quite a few broken blades! I have some of the spiral blades that were mentioned but I find them far too messy and coarse for fine fretwork. The piercing saw frames are particularly suited to cutting metal ends although piercing saw blades will fit a standard fretsaw frame too. In the history section of the Hobbies website there is a reference to the famous Hobbies treadle fretsaw, sadly no longer made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperpunchr Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 (edited) Hobbies of Dereham, Norfolk sell fretsaw frames and blades. They probably still sell a pressed steel "gull's mouth" cutting table that clamps on the edge of any bench and makes fretting easier. You don't have to buy one though, take an eight inch length of half in thick timber or MDF about four inches wide. in the centre and about three inches from one end drill a half inch diameter hole right through. Now cut a vee from the hole to the nearest end that opens out to about two and a half inches. Clamp this to the edge of the bench with the vee facing you and away you go. Try to keep the blade near the centre of the hole, keep the saw moving steadily up and down and move the workpiece to meet the saw rather than the other way around. If you've never done anything like this before I would recommend that you do lots of practice on bits of scrap plywood. Developing a smooth steady action takes a while - and quite a few broken blades! I have some of the spiral blades that were mentioned but I find them far too messy and coarse for fine fretwork. The piercing saw frames are particularly suited to cutting metal ends although piercing saw blades will fit a standard fretsaw frame too. In the history section of the Hobbies website there is a reference to the famous Hobbies treadle fretsaw, sadly no longer made. There's a floorstanding model from the same company, there's an old one on ebay right now, by conicidence...Here. Edited July 23, 2007 by paperpunchr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dunk Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 That's the one, if only I had space to house one! There's a floorstanding model from the same company, there's an old one on ebay right now, by conicidence...Here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 If Geoff Crabb is around he has have a picture of this worth several thousand words, but in general the technique is to mimic a scroll saw. Create a flat working surface and cut a U shaped nick out of the edge a little less than the depth of the saw. Place the wood to be cut on top of the surface, and with your hand under the surface, and with the saw working vertically, guide the piece around the moving saw blade with your left hand. If you can get your mind to command your right hand to to move up and down in one spot without thought then you can have all of your wits about you to move the design with your left. Within about five minutes you will be very glad of the industrial revolution... Chris Picture 1 shows the cutting board clamped to the bench. The bar, visible from the underside, extends down to the floor and provides resistance whilst cutting. With 'fretsawing', cutting is effected on the down stroke, the blade being inserted in the frame with the teeth toward the handle. The bar stabilizes the cutting board. The second picture shows the general way of holding the saw and the material (in this case brass) whilst cutting. Chris's description may be used in conjuction with this picture. Although 'fretsawing' or fretting is the general term used for this work, when working in metal the proper term is 'piercing' and piercing blades must be used in this case. Piercing blades are usually of the same length as fretsaw blades but are 'set' differently and have many more teeth per inch. The similar length allows piercing blades to be used in a fretsaw frame. The depth of throat of the fretsaw frame allows the largest end plates to be cut. The jewellers or piercing frame is much shallower limiting its use. For very hard woods, piercing blades may be used with advantage over fretsaw blades. Both types of blade come in a variety of dimensional thickness and width sizes and also the number of teeth per inch. The full range of these being classed M4/0 - M5. I personally use piercing blades ranging from sizes M0-M2 for both metal and wood in concertina work. The 0 size being used for more intricate work. Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDNICKILBY Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 We (Proops Bros) sell a Piercing Saw frame and a pack of 72 assorted blades for £10 .80 plus £3.95 post and packing. Sorry for the commercial . I alwayas find it helps to angle the new piece as you get a better joint and a better visual fit Proops can be found at WWW.Proopsbrothers.com or if you prefer 0116 2403400 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Helmore Posted July 25, 2007 Author Share Posted July 25, 2007 Thanks SO much to all of you for your help on this. I now feel fully prepared to tackle the job! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.elliott Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Another little tip if you are only inlaying a small bit of missing fretwork. Find a bit of the correct wood, matching grain, thickness, colour and grain orientation as well as may be practicable. Cut it to form a patch over the damaged area say a triangle, rectangle or whatever. Polish the top surface wih several coverings of clear ladies nail varnish/ stengthener. This is very high gloss, so flat or matt it back to a decent sheen match with the area itis to fit in. Inlay the prepared patch of polished wood into the fretting, yes as stated above, dovetailing in at all contact points and both glue and reinforce these contact points with the old fretting. Allow plenty of time for glue to dry, and make sure that surfaces are level and matching. Then fret-saw out the design as was the original, and blend in curves etc with a very sharp knife Finally dodge in joints and sheen using stopping wax or by matting back with 0000 grade wire wool impregnated with hard wax (as necessary). For small areas, and with your own patience this all works nicely and avoids a full re-polishing/ finishing exercise. I should not say so, but the antique restorers are past masters of cosmetic cabinet making repairs................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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