William Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Are Lachenals generally considered a 2nd class concertina? I've read more that just a few times of this or that player who owns a Lachenal to be selling that instrument because they wanted to "trade up," sometimes to an instrument that is either mid or upper mid priced. (I'm trading up from my Stagi) I believe I can now tell the difference between a newer accordian reeded intrument and a vintage concertina reeded instrument. I prefer the sound of the concertina reeded instrument. I've recently tried out a 30 button Lachenal......and I liked the sound. (Also tried out two other new concertinas--priced $1600+) The price of the Lachenal was under $1000. It had steel reeds, modern tuning and was in good shape overall. However, I still don't altogether trust by ability to assess the quality of the sound of the instrument. I'm afraid that I might not be atuned to some quality of the sound that is apparent to experienced players. Now there are those who wil rightly tell me that if it sounds good to me...that that's good enough. Afterall, if it brings me enjoyment--what's the difference?Well, I'm not disagreeing. However, I'd like to know the general impressions of concertina musicians with more experience about the general reputation of the sound, tonality etc. of these instruments. Why do some consider them a good "beginners" instrument? Why are they still relatively inexpensive even though they're concertina reeded? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Posted January 16, 2004 Author Share Posted January 16, 2004 Oops--I posted on the wrong forum. Very sorry--if I could move it to general discussion I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Timson Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 (edited) Well, until this discussion is moved... Because a concertina is a Lachenal does not mean it is ipso facto a second class concertina. The Lachenal Edeophone is unquestionably the match of the Wheatstone Aeola (some people, Colin Dipper for instance, consider it superior). And the Lachenal New Model concertina (which came in anglo, English and duet flavours) is a very good instrument. But Lachenal made an awful lot of lower quality instruments. The mahogany-ended 20 button anglo is, shall we say, not a good instrument. It outclasses the cheaper Italian and Chinese boxes, but that's about all you can say for it. In between come the rosewood ended boxes. I have a real soft spot for these. They are not very fast concertinas, but they have a sweetness of tone that makes them ideal singers instruments. My first concertina was a 30 button rosewood ended C/G, and I have recently sold my Dickinson C/G and bought another, and pocketted the 2k difference (thats 2k pounds!). Of course it doesn't play as well as the Dickinson, but it does me well enough for the purposes for which I bought it, and I love the sound. If you like that Lachenal, then buy it. It will hold its value, so you can't go wrong. Chris Edited to add a PS: the rosewood ended concertinas usually came with baffles. If yours doesn't, and a good few have lost them over the years, consaider putting in new ones - red for taste and historical accuracy. Edited January 16, 2004 by Chris Timson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Groff Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 William, As a player, teacher, dealer, and tuner of concertinas, I agree with Chris. Only need to add that with all antique concertinas the condition is very important, not just the model. I know you have been playing already, so you may have developed good air button technique. if not, however, I would be a little concerned about the models of Lachenal with 5 fold bellows. Unless a 5-fold anglo bellows is in *very* good shape, and unless you are playing single-note music with few chords, unless you have good air button technique and are playing well enough that you are no longer going very slowly for practice -- you may find it doesn't give you enough air. On the other hand, as Alan Day has remarked, there is nothing like a leaky (or short) bellows to MAKE you develop good air button technique! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_Coles Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Thread moved to General Discussion at William's request. The bbs software left a link there that should bring you here - nifty feature. I could add two cents but the experts have covered most of it. When I want to play very fast dance music, a Lachenal anglo (rosewood ended) limits me. For a certain sound and effect, it is great. I suspect I shall always own at least one (unless poverty strikes) even when better instruments enter my life. Of course some of their Englishes were great and this doesn't apply to those. Tonight in New Hampshire I sat between Tom Hall playing his New Model treble and Jeff Warner playing his baritone Edeophone. Wonderful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Oliver at home Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 I have played a rosewood ended 30 button Lachenal for Morris and Rapper since the late 1960's, and only replaced it with a new Dipper a few years ago. Nice tone and with practice, fast enough for pretty rapid Rapper sword dancing. The limitations were really me rather than the box. This one was restored, retuned to modern pitch and rebellowed by Crabb in about 1966/7 ( for GBP12!!), and the only problem really was that it was beginning to leak a little. Also, of course, for playing for dancing it is a lighter instrument than a metal ended Dipper or Jeffries. Nick Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Oliver at home Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 (edited) Sorry, This seems to have got on twice! Nick Edited January 18, 2004 by Nick Oliver at home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Madge Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I would say that Lachenals are not so consistent in their quality as some of the other makes. As always this means try before you buy if you encounter one. Some can be a bit disappointing, whilst others are up there with the best. I wonder if it is the original construction that makes them variable or just that they respond to how well they are looked after. My first Anglo was a metal ended 32 button C/G and I have yet to find a concertina that is capable of being played faster. Also it has not been tuned for more than 20 years and is still quite OK despite a lot of use. Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I would say that Lachenals are not so consistent in their quality as some of the other makes. Lachenal made many different models over the years and even in a given year. They could differ in the quality of the materials, the precision of the workmanship, and details of the design. This is true of other makers, but particularly true of Lachenal, who catered to both the luxury and mass markets. They made several times as many instruments as all the other makers put together and had various models of differing quality, even among metal-ended 30-button anglos. I wonder if it is the original construction that makes them variable or just that they respond to how well they are looked after. Both, of course. That's true of most things in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Read Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 (edited) Is it correct to say that the rosewood ended lachenals have the more intricate fretwork pattern than the mahogony ones? Chris, if the baffles have gone, do you have any recommendations for materials for replacement. I believe the baffles in the better instruments were leather? Edited January 20, 2004 by Paul Read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Timson Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Chris, if the baffles have gone, do you have any recommendations for materials for replacement. I believe the baffles in the better instruments were leather? Yes, leather - I get mine from Colin Dipper. Bob Gaskins has written an exhaustive treatise on how to fit baffles, taking as a starting point an article of my own, you can find it here. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Digby Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Mrs Crotty played a Lachenal. It must surely have been a special one!! Does anyone know for sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goran rahm Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Robin:"I wonder if it is the original construction that makes them variable or just that they respond to how well they are looked after." Goran:Since the definite majority of old instruments all people come across have been used, 'reconditioned',repaired....the hearsay about quality features becomes "variable" firstly due to "how well they are looked after".... Very few (if any..) have had instruments in truly original conditions...so what do 'we' know...?!? We can only try to identify, compare and judge each feature by itself and analyse the causes of variations...I'm afraid there are lots of rumours around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Is it correct to say thar the rosewood ended lachenals has the more intricate fretwork pattern than the mahogony ones? While this may be true in general, there are variations in fretwork with both types of wood, so I would say that it is not correct to make such a sweeping statement without qualification. In particular, I would not assume anything about the fretwork, based on the end material. I would want to see it. All you can be sure of is that the instruments with more intricate fretwork have more intricate fretwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shay Fogarty Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I have e-mailed Roger Digby directly but think readers may be interested to know that Mrs Crotty's Lachenal is 30 key rosewood ended. The original bellows has seen better days. It is now in the very good hands of Michael Tubridy. If you read my note of this year's Eigse Mrs Crotty you'll see I had the temerity to break a spring on it when Michael passed it around. Despite the bellows it has a very good strong sound and great tone, obviously why Mrs Crotty picked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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