Jump to content

This Old Jones


Recommended Posts

This is my first restoration project. It is not done. But it sounds great and works well. On the list of things yet to do are: New bushing board for the air button (I have the screws); Tuning - the whole box is ~25 cents sharp; Minor wood repair on the handles; A deeper seating on the strap adjustment screw inserts; and perhaps a fresh coat of French Polish.

 

The box was completely covered in soot. The ends were bare brass except under the handles where you could see the original nickel finish. The bellows were completely gone. Many reeds did not speak. Others were slow to start. Now all speak and start fast and the box is in tune with itself. I am fortunate to know a good plater and you can see he did a nice job. The bellows and all pads & valves are new.

 

post-2255-1184245466_thumb.jpg post-2255-1184245516_thumb.jpg post-2255-1184245546_thumb.jpg

 

I am soliciting suggestions for a material to use for the air button bushing board - masonite?

 

And what to do with the dugout scrape on the handle?

 

Thanks,

Dan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And what to do with the dugout scrape on the handle?

 

For super glue adicts this is the popular method. Find yourself a similar coloured (or a little lighter) piece of the same wood type (old mahogany). Do some sanding on a clean piece of wood and keep the wood dust. Tape the space around where the chip is missing. Then put a drop of super glue on the missing chip part of the handle and put some dust on it, it will be soaked into the super glue and wait until dry. Afterwards, repeat until the dried glue is "above the surface". Then at first, use sanding paper to flatten the new dried mountain of super glue and wood dust. After that, remove the tape and use a sharp scraper to egalise the surface.

 

After that the whole handle might need a new finish.

 

Maybe a good idea to test on another piece of wood how the colour is coming out first (incl. finish).

Edited by marien
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Care to share your tips on how you revoiced the reeds to speak clearly and quickly again? I've got an old concertina and an old flutina that need similar attention.

 

It would be a big help to me...right now re-voicing reeds seems like a technology that approaches magic, as far as I'm concerned.

 

And if you want to use masonite, I'd try the "tempered" variety, especially if you live in a place with "normal humidity"....it's more moisture resistant and slower to turn back into the sawdust from whence it came. Depending on thickness you could use one of several types of plywood or solid wood...what was the original, and did it shrink and crack?

 

Doug

Edited by paperpunchr
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Care to share your tips on how you revoiced the reeds to speak clearly and quickly again? I've got an old concertina and an old flutina that need similar attention.

 

It would be a big help to me...right now re-voicing reeds seems like a technology that approaches magic, as far as I'm concerned.

 

And if you want to use masonite, I'd try the "tempered" variety, especially if you live in a place with "normal humidity"....it's more moisture resistant and slower to turn back into the sawdust from whence it came. Depending on thickness you could use one of several types of plywood or solid wood...what was the original, and did it shrink and crack?

 

Doug

 

Hi Doug,

 

First - If you do not already have it buy Dave Elliot's book - "The Concertina Maintenance Manual". This is where I picked up 95% of the tips/methods/wisdom needed to do this job.

 

Next - buy good quality small screwdrivers, a craft knife, a magnifying glass (Invaluable for examining reed issues) and all the 'proper' glues - gum arabic, hide, pva etc.

 

On these reeds they had 3 problems. 1) they were partially covered in soot. 2) some rust on the edges of the reed blocking their vibration into the reed shoe (and just plain stuck) and 3) some were 'hung way low' such that the tip of the reed was below the surface of the shoe.

 

Most reeds had #1 I cleaned them all with the paper method.

 

Reeds not sounding usually had #2 some had both #2 and #3. For this I cleaned the edges of the reed first with a craft knife. Actually scraping touches of rust off them. (Rust Note - This box did not have much rust which was a surprise after seeing all the soot in it. But what it did have seemed to be just enough to stop a reed from singing.) One reed looked off center and needed a nudge back to square with the reed shoe. One or two requireded a touch with a file to knock the rust down enough.

 

Reeds that were slow were almost all on the left side and were hung low into the shoe frame. I'm guessing gravity over 100 years + storage with the right side first in the box did this. I pushed the reed tongue up from the bottom of the reed shoe with a wooden pencil with the tip broken off. Grabbing it with a finger and ever so slightly exercising the reed tongue up away from the shoe. Doing this briefly 3 or 4 times was usually enough to hang the tongue high enough to clear the shoe frame when viewed from the side. At this point you need to verify that the reed can still clear the shoe back down into the shoe frame just to verify you did not reposition the reed tongue.

 

Also make sure you do not have too many air leaks. Some of the high pitched reeds need a little chunk of air pressure to get them started and may just fail if the box is really leaky.

 

Thanks for the bushing board material tip - my bushing board for the air button was missing when I received this instrument. I was able to match the screws with the plater. The existing original bushing boards appear to resemble some sort of old particle board with small fibers. I tried a piece of craft plywood but it was too soft and fell apart on me. I would try a harder version but I want a softer material for the bone buttons to bump against.

 

Dan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the bushing board I would use a scrap of birch ply, very stable. Depending on your woodworking skills I would repair the damage on the hand rest by squaring it off and leveling with a sharp chisel and then let in a small piece of mahogany, use PVA or Elmer's glue and cramp in place until the glue dries. Plane, file and sand to shape then touch up the polish.

 

If you can't lay your hands on a small piece of mahogany try chatting to a luthier or guitar repair-man, they're bound to have a few bits of Honduras mahogany lying about. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the bushing board I would use a scrap of birch ply, very stable. Depending on your woodworking skills I would repair the damage on the hand rest by squaring it off and leveling with a sharp chisel and then let in a small piece of mahogany, use PVA or Elmer's glue and cramp in place until the glue dries. Plane, file and sand to shape then touch up the polish.

 

If you can't lay your hands on a small piece of mahogany try chatting to a luthier or guitar repair-man, they're bound to have a few bits of Honduras mahogany lying about. :)

 

I have lots of wood tools for big work and few for small work. I lack a jig saw. But I have a coping saw with sharp, fine blades. I have planers both hand and power. The bushing board I can cut with the coping saw.

 

The handle is a bit trickier as it has the Jones mark on it so I need to treat it with some respect (as opposed to ditching it). It is also in a spot where it could be annoyed with sweat from a hand. So my first thought is to square off the gouge and fit a mahogany chip in its place. Then french polish. The damage is just big enough that it may merit the chip... I do like the filler approaches but am apprehensive about which glue to use - again getting back to this wet hand issue... Yet another option might be to just lightly sand the crater and polish over it - sort of ignoring its existence. This may be less noticeable than a chip replacement though it may stand out more than the filler approach - ???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So my first thought is to square off the gouge and fit a mahogany chip in its place. Then french polish. The damage is just big enough that it may merit the chip...

 

That's what I meant, the handle is quite light in colour and Honduras mahogany would be a good match. I think a repair of this type would be almost invisible if you match up the polish colour. When I mentioned planing off the excess I was thinking of the tiny thumb planes used for delicate work on musical instruments. PVA will resist sweat no problem so the repair would be permanent. A mixture of sawdust and PVA glue is ok for very small repairs and cracks but I wouldn't use it in this case. That's just a personal opinion of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So my first thought is to square off the gouge and fit a mahogany chip in its place. Then french polish. The damage is just big enough that it may merit the chip...

 

That's what I meant, the handle is quite light in colour and Honduras mahogany would be a good match. I think a repair of this type would be almost invisible if you match up the polish colour. When I mentioned planing off the excess I was thinking of the tiny thumb planes used for delicate work on musical instruments. PVA will resist sweat no problem so the repair would be permanent. A mixture of sawdust and PVA glue is ok for very small repairs and cracks but I wouldn't use it in this case. That's just a personal opinion of course.

 

The wood is available here. Time it the toughest resource for me to find... I'll find some chunks and experiment with the mahogany Cement approach to filling my crater. It seems less invasive than cutting a chip out of the handle.

 

Does PVA hold up under methylated spirits + shellac?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does PVA hold up under methylated spirits + shellac?

Yes indeed it does.

 

Edited to add: I think you should make a trial batch of your wood/glue mix and try the polish out on it. PVA may well repel the shellac, I don't know - I've never tried that kind of repair.

Edited by tallship
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the practical guidelines, I'm going to have a try shortly. I do have the excellent D. Elliott book, and I've found some things online, but I want to build up a body of knowledge in my head so I don't go do something stupid, and you've given me another piece of the puzzle.

 

Thanks again.

 

Doug

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is old, you know, it's allowed to have the odd scar (well I think so anyway, I'd say it's part of the pleasure of having a 'pre-loved' instrument).

 

Why not sand it gently so that the dent loses its hard edges ( and stops throwing a hard edged shadow that draws the eye, more particularly) and call it quits at that. It doesn't feel uncomfortable to play does it? You won't see it when it's in use either.

 

If you really found it upsetting you could reduce the height along the full length of the handle and pack up with a slice of veneer underneath it; easier and less obvious than a patch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I prefer super glue above pva as it is string and it dries out harder and you can treat it as wood afterwards. The only thing is that (like with PVA and other glues) the resulting colour will be a little bit darker than the bare wood dust, so I would use a lighter coloured wood for making the dust, and check in advance on an other piece of mahogany if the result matches the colour of the handle. It is relatively easy to make the result a little darker with a coloured varnish, but making it lighter is more complicated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

by the way, when you add the glue with the dust, take care to clean out the crater, for example, sand it just that little bit to let the fresh wood appear in the day light. The glue will hold better on the clean wood.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dirge,

 

So 'Let It Be' ? That sounds great to me.

 

Less work and I can't damage it. When playing you can't see the silly gouge. I'm just focused on it because it is a blemish and I am trying to fix up the box. And yes a touch of sanding prior to a fresh finish coat and the dirt and discoloration disappear. You are a genius.

 

Additional note on this box. It has a serial number 21454 that is from memory and I may be off on the last digit or two. Which dated in some chart to around 1894. It also has a stamp on each end 'W. WEAVER'. Presumably the dealer.

 

thx,

Dan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I prefer super glue above pva as it is string and it dries out harder and you can treat it as wood afterwards. The only thing is that (like with PVA and other glues) the resulting color will be a little bit darker than the bare wood dust, so I would use a lighter colored wood for making the dust, and check in advance on an other piece of mahogany if the result matches the colour of the handle. It is relatively easy to make the result a little darker with a colored varnish, but making it lighter is more complicated.

 

 

Marien,

 

I like the sound of this technique. I am going to experiment with it (despite my cross post to Dirge). It will take me a bit of time - I've got an offshore yacht race tomorrow that will keep me on the water for 2 or 3 days...

 

My only concern with using cyanoacrylate is that is binds so well that if you want to Undo its task it can be really hard to achieve. I have not used it very often on wood and am unfamiliar with its behavior there. I can verify that it is excellent for repairing battle damaged Pokemon though!

 

Thanks again,

Dan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I prefer super glue above pva as it is string and it dries out harder and you can treat it as wood afterwards. The only thing is that (like with PVA and other glues) the resulting colour will be a little bit darker than the bare wood dust, so I would use a lighter coloured wood for making the dust, and check in advance on an other piece of mahogany if the result matches the colour of the handle. It is relatively easy to make the result a little darker with a coloured varnish, but making it lighter is more complicated.

 

Please be careful about the application of superglue, it embrittles most organic materials, whereas PVA is a lot easier to work with. I understand the application in this case, but I would usually try anything rather than superglue Further more, I am not sure of the 'life' of such a repair, how long does superglue last before it starts to break-down? I personnally would inlay fresh wood, or blend the defect out. Actually I probably would not do either, I value the patina of age, use, and honest wear and tear.

 

Dave E

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Superglue holds perfectly on repaired cracks in guitar tops and sides, it also commonly used to repair cracks in black wooden flutes (although these crack repairs in flutes suffer more from breathtaking moistness) so why wouldn't it work for concertina's? I agree that the glue is quite aggressive and not very healthy to inhale, but to avoid getting it everywhere on the instrument I cover the surroundings first with tape. Also I agree that it it is more work to get it flat if you put on too much, but if you put in much dust, and do not make high mountains, that will be hardly a problem.

 

I agree that putting fresh wood could be nicer if the wood structure shows a certain pattern, and you can find a chip that at the end shows the same pattern of the wood, mostly you will see a little colour difference anyhow. Solving dust in a glue will not bring you a wood structure, but I think that this handle is quite plane in one colour.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't worry about superglue breaking down...it's a cyano-acrylate and basically becomes an acrylic plastic that ultimately would probably outlast the wood entirely...thousands of years from now (barring a fire) the repair would remain though the wood around it turned to dust. It's even generally resistant to direct sunlight and other things that would destroy vinyl and styrene plastics...PVA glue will not last as long as acrylics because the vinyl component will break down from sunlight and oxidation. Either will outlast the average concertina player. :rolleyes:

 

For that matter, hide glue lasts up to a couple hundred years if dry, and not allowed to mildew.

 

Doug

Edited by paperpunchr
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...