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Thinking Of Upgrading To A 30 Button


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I'm making slow progress. I got a Stagi to replace my Hohner about a year ago, and I like it much better, except it's A/D (used, ebay, about half price), which makes some fingerings awkward. It might be better if it was D/A, but... As much as I'd like a Morse Ceili, I just can't justify it yet, as I don't practice consistently and improvements are slow coming. So I'm thinking of a 30 button Stagi, probably G/D, because It's reasonably priced and I like the tone of the one I have now.

 

The question is, isn't it a little strange to have all the sharps and flats on the third row except one on the first row? For instance, in a C/G, F# is first row and everything else is on third row.

 

This has probably been discussed many times before, but I couldn't think of the proper search terms.

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I'm making slow progress. I got a Stagi to replace my Hohner about a year ago, and I like it much better, except it's A/D (used, ebay, about half price), which makes some fingerings awkward. It might be better if it was D/A, but... As much as I'd like a Morse Ceili, I just can't justify it yet, as I don't practice consistently and improvements are slow coming. So I'm thinking of a 30 button Stagi, probably G/D, because It's reasonably priced and I like the tone of the one I have now.

 

The question is, isn't it a little strange to have all the sharps and flats on the third row except one on the first row? For instance, in a C/G, F# is first row and everything else is on third row.

 

This has probably been discussed many times before, but I couldn't think of the proper search terms.

 

Hi Dan,

 

I think it has more to do with historical development than anything else. The original German concertinas just had two rows, with the notes needed for those particular keys in each row respectively. It has nothing to do with sharps or flats, just what notes belong in those scales. The third row was later added to create a fully chromatic instrument, and designed in such a way to enable certain chords and/or notes to be played in particular directions. You'll find that there is significant variation between makers and systems as to what goes in that third row, particularly on the right hand side, as well as some variation on the outer extremities of the two regular rows.

 

-David

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Hi Dan

 

I will just suggest that at your stage you, your playing and your budget would benefit from an upgrade to a Morse Ceili, or a similar quality accordion reeded 30 button concertina.

 

With a better instrument you might enjoy practicing more and improve at a more satisfying rate. A good hybrid is much easier to sell when you are ready, and you could get much more of your investment back. The main reason is that it is easy (like I did) to spend much more money over time hopping to mediocre instruments, than to just get a good one that will help you improve and enjoy playing, and last you a long time as you improve.

 

Richard

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hi....if you don't know whether you're going to stick with it, i guess the stagi might be justifiable. but if you're pretty darn sure, i would go for delayed gratification and save up the dough for a hybrid with fast, easy action & response, such as the ceili.

 

i believe the button arrangement happened over time as mentioned above. it isn't only the accidentals that are on other rows. extras of certain often-used tonics & fifths are also duplicated in the third row, or outside their own row, here and there. (at least with jeffries fingering, don't know about wheatstone.) this probably developed over time as players asked for duplicates to make things flow better. for sure this is how they believe the bandoneon layouts evolved, and the bandoneon doesn't even have "rows" with discernible order. it seems completely random, but actually has notes clustered and duplicated in both directions multiple times to make for better scale runs, arpeggios, etc. you don't need to worry about these "extras" when you're just learning with an easy default pattern, but once you really start playing, this seemingly weird arrangement gives you tons of possibilities. i use a push "a" near the right end of my right-hand top accidental row constantly for bellows control. i land on it for long notes and adore it. seriously.

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The question is, isn't it a little strange to have all the sharps and flats on the third row except one on the first row? For instance, in a C/G, F# is first row and everything else is on third row.

 

This has probably been discussed many times before, but I couldn't think of the proper search terms.

You might find this Topic interesting.

 

I'm making slow progress. I got a Stagi to replace my Hohner about a year ago, and I like it much better, except it's A/D (used, ebay, about half price), which makes some fingerings awkward. It might be better if it was D/A, but... As much as I'd like a Morse Ceili, I just can't justify it yet, as I don't practice consistently and improvements are slow coming. So I'm thinking of a 30 button Stagi, probably G/D, because It's reasonably priced and I like the tone of the one I have now.

"Can't justify" the Ceili? What's your logic?

Or rather, since logic is a way of deriving conclusions from assumptions, what are your assumptions?

  • If you just don't have the funds for the Ceili, then the issue would be ability, not justification, so I suspect that's not it.
  • If you have the funds available, but are afraid of "losing" them if you eventually give up the instrument, then I think you're mistaken. If you resell a used Ceili, you're not only likely to get back a higher percentage of your original purchase price, but even the actual cash difference may be less.
  • If you have the funds but feel that the price of the Ceili is too much cash to "tie up" for an extended period in an instrument where you "don't practice consistently and improvements are slow coming", I'll only suggest that with a Ceili in your hands you could find yourself practicing more consistently and with more rapid progress. Not knowing you personally, I can't say whether that difference would be "enough" to justify changing your choice of options.

My own opinions, of course. In the end, it's still your decision.

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It figures someone would try to talk me into the better model. Le'see. 16 Weeks lead time would be early October...

 

Anyway, lets keep talking about layout. I have diagrams for 31 key Jeffries and Wheatstone layouts. I assume the 30 key is the same without that 31st C/C key. So, Jeffries or Wheatstone layout, and Why?

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...lets keep talking about layout. I have diagrams for 31 key Jeffries and Wheatstone layouts. I assume the 30 key is the same without that 31st C/C key. So, Jeffries or Wheatstone layout, and Why?

If you do a "More Options" Search with the specification

+Jeffries +Wheatstone +layout +custom

you should find a couple of interesting discussions.

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Dan,

 

There is another option.

 

My anglo is a 24 button made by Frank Edgley. There are 6 buttons per row. The layout is exactly like a 20-button except for the extra buttons at the "top" of each row, which contain accidentals.

 

If this makes no sense, let me know and I will come up with a better explanation.

 

I waited about 6 months for Frank to make mine.

Edited by Rhomylly
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quote:

except it's A/D (used, ebay, about half price), which makes some fingerings awkward. It might be better if it was D/A, but...

 

I'm sorry to be responding to your first post, but this has me perplexed, and I'm surprised no-one else mentioned it. Your Stagi is in A/D? Do you mean A/E? I've never heard of a concertina being a fourth apart. Just wondering, thanks,

 

Don

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