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'stored' Valve Syndrome - Quick Fix?


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Hello players and dabblers!

I've recently acquired my 3rd Lachenal English (48 key) and this one seems to be the nicest in tuning terms and general playability. However, it has been stored on end judging by the number of valves pointing upwards rather than sitting ready to cover the reeds. Since I'm also learning to play and this is the chosen one of three for the task, is there a method for making the valves sit where they should without too much effort (or a new set)?

Another question - one of the lower D's on the LH side plays a different note (sounds a C) on the draw from the push yet it speaks late when it sounds the wrong note. Is this something obvious?

Now I look at all three, the first one I acquired is a Lachenal & Co (#46707), the third one is a Louis Lachenal (#7683), the fretwork is much finer than on #46707 and the 2nd one (#7885) which has no cloth dustguard (it's missing) must be a Louis as it has the same fretwork as the 3rd one. Also No.2 has really dark green bellows leather but #7683 has brighter green bellows and the dustguard is a light wood, not cloth. Does any of this follow a pattern? Are the Louis L. models later or earlier than the L & Co.? Are they better?

Enough Q's for my first post I think but I'd be very interested to hear back from any experts on these differences, even between the 2 Louis's.

Thanks in advance.

Paul

Edited by Ironframe
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My (limited) experience with curled valves is, if it is quick it ain't a fix, and if it is a fix, it ain't quick. But good luck with it. A shame with those hex cases, folks store grandpa's concertina in one on end, assuming it must be the best way, when it isn't.

 

I've never tried an early Louis Lachenal, sounds interesting!

 

Ken

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Revalving is surely one of the least frightening owner/user jobs to tackle, and the valves aren't a fortune. Why not redo them, for a best fix?

 

Could he turn them over, experts?

 

I like the 'players and dabblers' opening and refuse to confirm which one I belong in.

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dabbler always seems a wise choice, keeps the expectations down, and is probably just as much fun.

 

Alan

 

I think 'dabbler' because I know there are experts who play, experts who repair, players who dabble in minor repairs and players who don't!

 

It's not such a fine line really and I wouldn't assume to call anyone who has picked up a concertina with the aim of learning to play, an amateur so it seemed a fairly friendly in between term which is pleasant and not condescending. I have every ambition to be a repairer on the straightforward things and in spite of my profession I would leave the tuning to a reed expert as they (the reeds) seem at first sight to be tricky things which require very careful handling.

 

No - this idea of a quick fix really, is to get the instrument playable in a nice way without too much dabbling as I would like to learn the full repair on one of the other 2 Lachenals whilst doing the regular playing on the bright green Louis. Then I can do the whole thing on the playing machine as I'll then have another on which to practice! (Perhaps I'll attempt a photographic line-up of the three so you can see the colour difference and the fretwork and even the valves too if this isn't stuff you know already).

 

Please keep your thoughts coming.

 

Paul

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One would be wize to try to fix existing valves. Chance is they are of better quality and if you re-valve the instrument, you may have to re-tune it as well.

I had more or less OK results with leather conditioner. I would smear the conditioner on the valve and run some smooth metal spoon-like thing over it several times, then leave it overnight in horizontal position. If not, why not use some acetate strips, glue them to the wooden part, and bend them, so they press slightly on the valve, closing it? Why not try both, condtitioner and the acetate?

The acetate I tried on my Jack and it worked miracles on low reeds, that now sound from whisper to loud without gurgling ( a problem before!).

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One would be wize to try to fix existing valves. Chance is they are of better quality and if you re-valve the instrument, you may have to re-tune it as well.

I had more or less OK results with leather conditioner. I would smear the conditioner on the valve and run some smooth metal spoon-like thing over it several times, then leave it overnight in horizontal position. If not, why not use some acetate strips, glue them to the wooden part, and bend them, so they press slightly on the valve, closing it? Why not try both, condtitioner and the acetate?

The acetate I tried on my Jack and it worked miracles on low reeds, that now sound from whisper to loud without gurgling ( a problem before!).

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Please don't smear anything onto the valves, you risk contamination of the reedpan, and preventing any new valves from glueing properly.

 

New valves are cheap and simple to replace and this would be my recommendation. However, and if the old valves are newish and are only slightly curled a TEMPORARY fix is to stretch the valve by using a sawing needle to stab the tip of the offending valve and, holding it parallel to the reed pan, stretch it along its length. Some times this works for a while.

 

The problem you have is usually associated with storing the instrument on its end, often in a nice but impractical hexagonal box. Always store the instrument with is axis horizontal.

 

Dave

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Herewith some pictures of the Louis showing:

post-4021-1178569515_thumb.jpgThe wooden dust protector instead of cloth (and the finer fretwork of a Louis over a L & Co. instrument)

post-4021-1178569559_thumb.jpgThe inside view of the same wood cover.. This may have been an attachment option to reduce the sound output? [he guessed at wildly..]

post-4021-1178569607_thumb.jpgThe 'bright' green bellows.

Paul

Edited by Ironframe
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Please don't smear anything onto the valves, you risk contamination of the reedpan, and preventing any new valves from glueing properly.

 

New valves are cheap and simple to replace and this would be my recommendation. However, and if the old valves are newish and are only slightly curled a TEMPORARY fix is to stretch the valve by using a sawing needle to stab the tip of the offending valve and, holding it parallel to the reed pan, stretch it along its length. Some times this works for a while.

 

The problem you have is usually associated with storing the instrument on its end, often in a nice but impractical hexagonal box. Always store the instrument with is axis horizontal.

 

Dave

 

Stabbing the leather with the needle and stretching seems like a good one.

Yes, don't smear any stuff on the wood. The work must be done carefully. The same advice on gluing the valves: Don't smear the glue all over the reeds!

So you've re-valved the instrument and the tuning was untouched?

Is that because you were lucky, or the new valves closely matched the old ones?

My limited experience with accordion re-valving tought me that the old worn valves are better. They seal better, the leather is probably of higher grade, they flex better without flopping, they are correctly cut etc. I'd do anything to revive the old ones. Re-tuning is a major surgery, with shops backed up for 6 months.

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Hi Paul,

Welcome to concertina.net.

Plenty of advice here as you've already found out! the best coming from those that make these fiendish devices!!

This topic has already been discussed so a search of the archives should turn up something.

I do recall it being said that they can be straightened in situ but that isn't a permanent solution.

If you wish to replace them then spares can be obtained here -

Dave Leese

 

regards

jake

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Hello Jake,

 

Thanks for that info - I'll go looking for the topic. I guess it's a regular thing as the hex boxes seem to suggest the instrument should be stored in the wrong orientation - the makers not having had the experience of time to see that it's not the best way to leave them!

 

I have already bought a couple of items from David in the shape of new thumb straps and I've pored over his parts list too so I'll have to compile a shopping list in the next few weeks. I imagine that since new valves have to be at least as good as those being replaced that the quality is ok and of course they'll be flat so it's a good place to begin.

 

Cheers,

 

Paul

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I had a further thought about a possible 'temporary' way to overcome valve droop. If one cut a slice of acetate about half the width and 7/8ths the length and stuck it to the valve, would the improved stiffness of this remove the curl? It would add virtually nothing to the weight of the valve but by virtue of being stuck along its length, would surely prevent anything but a straight valve and make everything fine again.

 

Just an idea.

 

Paul

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Firstly the spruce 'covers' as yiu called them are sound baffles intended to absorb harmonics and generally mellow the tone of the instrument.

Paul,

 

Secondly, please don't stick ANYTHING onto the valves, you will get all sorts of non-sounding notes, and variations in valve rate s giving different operating pressures.

 

Just replace the valves, it is so easy to do

 

Dave E

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Thanks for the info there Dave. On another thread, I found the 'everything you wanted to know about cloth baffles etc' (http://www.concertina.com/gaskins/baffles/) and was fully enlightened including finding the spruce covers mentioned, closed ends etc.

 

Don't worry, I wouldn't stick anything on the valves, I know they are made one specific way, to be correct and if curling, should be replaced - I was just thinking out loud! (On pianos, you find all sorts of awful patch-ups that people have done as stop gaps until the technician arrives - quite often it's their patch-ups which precipitate the early arrival of said technician!)

 

I'm looking forward to doing a valve replacement at some time in the future.

 

Paul

Edited by Ironframe
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So if you actaully take the concertina out of its hexagonal cocoon and play it, then remember to put it in the opposite side up each time you played it, wouldn't that solve the end-side-up storage problem?

 

Only for frequent players I suppose. Best to leave it on axis as suggested by the pros.

 

I don't keep mine in the cases anyway since most are falling apart, I hide it in the bottom of a box along side extension cords and RCA adpaters, covered with some shirts I don't wear.

 

I keep a very cheap but fancy german anglo out in plain view for all to admire...

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So if you actaully take the concertina out of its hexagonal cocoon and play it, then remember to put it in the opposite side up each time you played it, wouldn't that solve the end-side-up storage problem?

 

Only for frequent players I suppose. Best to leave it on axis as suggested by the pros.

 

I don't keep mine in the cases anyway since most are falling apart, I hide it in the bottom of a box along side extension cords and RCA adpaters, covered with some shirts I don't wear.

 

I keep a very cheap but fancy german anglo out in plain view for all to admire...

 

Yes, but many boxes for English sytem instrumentd have a groove cut for the thumbstrap screw head to pass down, so you cannot invert the instrument in its hexagonal box

 

Dave E

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One would be wize to try to fix existing valves. Chance is they are of better quality and if you re-valve the instrument, you may have to re-tune it as well.

 

This is a novice question perhaps. Why would changing a leather valve cause one to have to re-tune the instrument?

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