The Bisonoric Anglo Duet Concertina

[ragtimer]

How about if the paddle thing that separated the two bellows were an upside down T with the vertical part sticking up between your legs and your thighs holding down the horizontal part against the chair. The upside down T shape would make the paddle very stable. There could be considerable stress if both hands wanted to move left or right together.

That's a very practical suggestion, Jody. My own alternative was to have the paddle go down to the floor, and be clamped between the player's feet, shins, and knees. You version could be extended to go under hte player's butt. All worthwhile to make it really playable.

 

But in any case the player must be seated (which I have to be anyway, to handle the bulky bellows on my Stagi Hayden Duet

The whole thing sounds kind of clumsy and not a very elegant solution but I think it would work and could be very cool to play. I think that you would have to take it apart to put it in a case for transport. Airport security would certainly look at you funny.

Glad you think it would work -- your opinion means a lot.

Yes, it would have to come apart for easy transport. Another extra piece of design work, how to do that.

And don't airport types already look at our boxes kind of funny?

--Mike K.

[Boney]

If someone were to build this contraption, would you volunteer to try to play it?

I don't think I'd be able to help myself!

 

Thinking about it a bit more, you'd need an air button on each side.

[JimLucas]

How about if the paddle thing that separated the two bellows were an upside down T with the vertical part sticking up between your legs and your thighs holding down the horizontal part against the chair. The upside down T shape would make the paddle very stable. There could be considerable stress if both hands wanted to move left or right together.

I wonder if such an upside down "T" would be stable enough. The vertical piece would form a lever arm, and if both hands were pulling+pressing in the same direction I wonder whether my body weight would be enough to keep me from being tipped over.

[ragtimer]

If someone were to build this contraption, would you volunteer to try to play it?

I don't think I'd be able to help myself!

Great, thanks! I'll keep you in mind if one ever gets built. It would be something to see at a Fest!

Thinking about it a bit more, you'd need an air button on each side.

Very true -- good thinking. SOmeone will have to hack the LH side of the sacrificial Rochelle ...

--Mike K.

[ragtimer]

How about if the paddle thing that separated the two bellows were an upside down T with the vertical part sticking up between your legs and your thighs holding down the horizontal part against the chair. The upside down T shape would make the paddle very stable. There could be considerable stress if both hands wanted to move left or right together.

I wonder if such an upside down "T" would be stable enough. The vertical piece would form a lever arm, and if both hands were pulling+pressing in the same direction I wonder whether my body weight would be enough to keep me from being tipped over.

Good point. I did suggest that the horizontal flat board be extended to go under the player's butt, which for most of us should provide enough stability

 

I'd be worried about making the joint between the vertical riser paddle and the horizontal sit-on piece strong enough. WIth modern materials it should be possible. Time for some engineering.

--Mike K.

[Pete Dunk]

It seems to me that there are several possible adaptations to this instrument. Concern about the stability could be resolved by redesigning the centre board support. A height adjustable monopod with folding foot plates at the bottom would transfer the weight to the floor and allow the feet to provide a firm anchor point; add to this an adjustable length sliding ‘T’ bar (which could fold up for convenience) terminating with either a pad for the player to sit on or a padded clamp to grip the front of the players seat.

 

This would provide a stable, comfortable playing position for all and take the additional weight of the instrument out of the equation.

 

I may be back with a working idea which includes foot operated bellows for the hybrid Bisonoric Anglo Duet Harmoniatina.

[ragtimer]

It seems to me that there are several possible adaptations to this instrument. Concern about the stability could be resolved by redesigning the centre board support. A height adjustable monopod with folding foot plates at the bottom would transfer the weight to the floor and allow the feet to provide a firm anchor point; add to this an adjustable length sliding ‘T’ bar (which could fold up for convenience) terminating with either a pad for the player to sit on or a padded clamp to grip the front of the players seat.

Good ideas. Some combination of these might well work out. I did suggest something betwween the player's feet, and your idea is fine. I think the horizontal resistance will have to come from the player's seat, not from the floor. The monopod leg to the floor should add horizontal stability, but the seat alone can take the extra weight.

This would provide a stable, comfortable playing position for all and take the additional weight of the instrument out of the equation.

In any event, the system will take the weight (and sagging) of the bellows out of the player's hands, leaving him with only the tina halves to support.

I may be back with a working idea which includes foot operated bellows for the hybrid Bisonoric Anglo Duet Harmoniatina.

That would be cute! Would be expressive like the Euro harmonium. But could you make the bellows balanced, like an organ swell shoe, so that rocking back by pressing your heel down would create suction? That is, a double-acting bellows? Unless you want to go to a unisonoric system, your pedal bellows need a way to both blow and draw. If you're serious ...

[Pete Dunk]

That would be cute! Would be expressive like the Euro harmonium. But could you make the bellows balanced, like an organ swell shoe, so that rocking back by pressing your heel down would create suction? That is, a double-acting bellows? Unless you want to go to a unisonoric system, your pedal bellows need a way to both blow and draw. If you're serious ...

 

Serious, Moi? Now look 'ere, the design of an off centre hinged pedal that depresses a vertically mounted bellows when pressed with the front of the foot and draws the bellows open when rocked back with the heel is simplicity itself; although this is a greatly simplified explanation of the design. It may even be that I resort to the use of pneumatic cylinders (air rams) to bring the contraption into the 21st century..

 

This would mean that the instruments' bellows would be replaced with a divided air chamber to drive the reeds and the concertina ends could be hinged to swing in and out, controlling air volume via dampers - a hand operated 'expression pedal' much like the 'swell' pedal you alluded to.

 

I shall now apply my considerable intellect to devising universal endplates on the air chamber that will allow any

doner concertina ends to be fitted in minutes. This way lies madness.

[ragtimer]

That would be cute! Would be expressive like the Euro harmonium. But could you make the bellows balanced, like an organ swell shoe, so that rocking back by pressing your heel down would create suction? That is, a double-acting bellows? Unless you want to go to a unisonoric system, your pedal bellows need a way to both blow and draw. If you're serious ...

 

Serious, Moi? Now look 'ere, the design of an off centre hinged pedal that depresses a vertically mounted bellows when pressed with the front of the foot and draws the bellows open when rocked back with the heel is simplicity itself; although this is a greatly simplified explanation of the design. It may even be that I resort to the use of pneumatic cylinders (air rams) to bring the contraption into the 21st century...

OK. No need to use vertical bellows -- just a simple reinforced wedge bellows, such as used in a fair ogan or monkey grind organ (I play one of those). The pivot point would be about midway under the foot, and the big end of the bellows would be toward the player's toes, sitcking out in front of him. Step down to push, rock back to draw. One separate for each foot of course, each with its own windway to its side of the tina (a flexible corrogated hose).

 

Cylinders are heavy, full of friction, expensive, and not folksy enough

This would mean that the instruments' bellows would be replaced with a divided air chamber to drive the reeds and the concertina ends could be hinged to swing in and out, controlling air volume via dampers - a hand operated 'expression pedal' much like the 'swell' pedal you alluded to.

Aha, two separate expression means -- your foot pressure, and the swell-shading of the reeds.

Some harmoniums have such a shade, operated by a knee lever, and it does work.

I shall now apply my considerable intellect to devising universal endplates on the air chamber that will allow any

doner concertina ends to be fitted in minutes. This way lies madness.

I suspect that concertina ends are among the least standardized items in production today

But stay sane, you're on the right track. --Mike K.

[Hooves]

I have a suggestion:

 

Do away with the T-Board altogether, and have your 2 halves mounted separtely as if only half-a-tina. Have each "Half" strapped or mounted to either each of your legs or the sides of your body.

 

Then you can play each half seperately, no need for an awkward board in between.

 

I had thought of making a one sided concertina so I could play a string-drum (like the pipe and tabor), with one hand on the tina the other on the hand drum/or the chord box they use sometimes in french playing.

That way I could playa melody and have an drum or string-chorded accompianment.

 

I came up with idea on working out how to best perform Shel Silverstein's "The Man who Got no Sign", but rather than actaul reeds I thought I might use an Ocarina with a bellows to get a nice whistle sort of sound, or even attach a bellows and keys to a Shakuhachi or other flute.

Edited April 29, 2007 by Hooves

[peverett]

The obvious solution to steadying the central divider is to build it into a piece of furniture. Turning the 'tiina sideways allows for a natural pushing/pulling motion, but renders the other end unreachable. Ah-HAH! Opportunity! Mount two side-by-side in a parlor loveseat and create the "Courting" Bisonoric Anglo Duet.

 

Really inevitable, when you think about it. The rest is mere engineering, except for the name -- what do you call two Duets playing together?

 

PWE

[Pete Dunk]

A quartet.

[ragtimer]

The obvious solution to steadying the central divider is to build it into a piece of furniture. Turning the 'tiina sideways allows for a natural pushing/pulling motion, but renders the other end unreachable. Ah-HAH! Opportunity! Mount two side-by-side in a parlor loveseat and create the "Courting" Bisonoric Anglo Duet.

Gives yet another meaning to the phrase "You and I could make beautiful music together!"

Really inevitable, when you think about it. The rest is mere engineering, except for the name -- what do you call two Duets playing together?

A "Court-ette"

--Mike K.