Duet Vs Anglo

[Chris Timson]

By the way, m3838, have you ever thought of identifying yourself? m3838 seems so formal.

 

Chris

[m3838]

By the way, m3838, have you ever thought of identifying yourself? m3838 seems so formal.

 

Chris

I just tried to re-register, but it didn't let me. You can click on my login to find my name, but for the time been I'll keep the formality. We, robots, are brought up very stricktly.

[JimLucas]

Just one comment on the title of this thread. I've never seen fiddle v. saxophone debates, say, or piano v. flute. Why, then, do we always seem to be having all these endless anglo v. duet v. English debates?

 

I posit that, although they have a close common ancestry and manufacturing process, the various systems of concertina are in reality as distinct as musical instruments as the fiddle and the saxophone are. I further posit that choosing between the concertina systems is as inaccessible to logic as choosing any musical instrument over any other.

Amen!

[JimLucas]

I'm sure a lot of the anglo players around here will be wanting to transpose into their home keys, but would that prove the inferiority of the instrument in the eyes of the judges?

Judges? We don't need no steenking judges!

[m3838]

Just one comment on the title of this thread. I've never seen fiddle v. saxophone debates, say, or piano v. flute. Why, then, do we always seem to be having all these endless anglo v. duet v. English debates?

 

It's because people who pick up concertina, do this for two reasons: they either like the sound, or the portability (and both, of course).

Sound is the same, so the debate is here to stay. Same debate is a status quo among accordion players. And I'm sure among harp and harmonica players, where same sound is produced by very different instruments.

[Dirge]

Judges? We don't need no steenking judges!

 

 

2000AD?

[Chris Timson]

I just tried to re-register, but it didn't let me. You can click on my login to find my name, but for the time been I'll keep the formality. We, robots, are brought up very stricktly.

I understand, Misha. It helps to know people who know. Have a good oil bath when you get back to the factory

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

[Crane Driver]

My personal preference should be obvious

 

I agree that its very much 'horses for courses' - and in my experience, finding a decent quality concertina at an affordable price is much harder than learning to play it, whatever the system. The Crane duet is the first system I found, way back in 19*mumble mumble* (and you really don't want to know how cheap they were back then). I had only heard of the English and Anglo, so I had no idea what this was, except that it was neither of them. I bought it anyway. Fortunately that meant I had heard no preconcieved ideas about how to play it or what it was good for, so I used it for everything. I do song accompanyments, play in a ceilidh band, have played for Morris dancing and even (once) played fast jigs for a Rapper sword dance team - not something I'd recommend too often. I've developed a fairly 'anglo' type style, using frequent changes of bellows direction to add emphasis, but it still doesn't sound like an anglo - it's another duet style.

 

Over the years, I've also owned an English, an Anglo and a McCann Duet. I've sold them all on. Anything I want to play, I can play on my Crane easier and better than on anything else. I'm sure others will say the same about their system of choice. I certainly wouldn't say that everyone should play Crane (that would push the price up too much!)

 

Incidentally, I have twice been at (non-concertina) events where five different systems have been on show. One was a folk club in Scotland, where in addition to my Crane, there were an English, an Anglo, a McCann and a Jeffries duet turned up. Some years later I was at a shanty festival in the North of England where we had Crane, English, Anglo, McCann and Hayden. I've never seen all six in the same room.

 

Something to look forward to.

 

Andrew

[geoffwright]

Now just remind me, why do the words JUDGE and CONCERTINA seem to be familiar?

[ragtimer]

My personal preference should be obvious

 

I agree that its very much 'horses for courses' - and in my experience, finding a decent quality concertina at an affordable price is much harder than learning to play it, whatever the system. The Crane duet is the first system I found, way back in 19*mumble mumble* (and you really don't want to know how cheap they were back then). I had only heard of the English and Anglo, so I had no idea what this was, except that it was neither of them. I bought it anyway. Fortunately that meant I had heard no preconcieved ideas about how to play it or what it was good for, so I used it for everything.

I had a similar experience. I'd literally never seen a concertina of any type before the weekend when I bought my Hadyen Duet. ANd I hadn't heard much either. So I had no idea what to play on it, excpet whatever I wanted to play, that fit a bass/chord accompniment plus melody scheme.

I do song accompanyments, play in a ceilidh band, have played for Morris dancing and even (once) played fast jigs for a Rapper sword dance team - not something I'd recommend too often. I've developed a fairly 'anglo' type style, using frequent changes of bellows direction to add emphasis, but it still doesn't sound like an anglo - it's another duet style.

I play in a Celtic plus Old-Timey band, and I like all the music, but probably don't play any of it in the "ethnically corrrect" style. SOmetiems jsut melody, sometimes just comp chords, sometimes both -- Duets can do them all

I gather "Rapper" means something else on your side of the Pond ... lucky for you!

Over the years, I've also owned an English, an Anglo and a McCann Duet. I've sold them all on. Anything I want to play, I can play on my Crane easier and better than on anything else. I'm sure others will say the same about their system of choice.

As much as I like the Hayden system, I struggle with some of its shortcomings. For playing in oddball keys (like Eb) or lots of minor scales (like Klezmer), I suspect an English would do better -- faster and better odds of hitting the right notes. But I do enjoy seeing how fast and expressively I can play such melodies, just the same.

I certainly wouldn't say that everyone should play Crane (that would push the price up too much!)

Well, I've had a hankering to try out the Crane myself, but it's still close to $2K to get in.

Incidentally, I have twice been at (non-concertina) events where five different systems have been on show. One was a folk club in Scotland, where in addition to my Crane, there were an English, an Anglo, a McCann and a Jeffries duet turned up. Some years later I was at a shanty festival in the North of England where we had Crane, English, Anglo, McCann and Hayden. I've never seen all six in the same room.

At last year's NE workshop, I sat with a Crane palyer, and expert Macann teacher, and close to half a dozen Haydens. I didn't know there were that many Hayden players in the world!

 

--Mike K.

[Old_Squeezer]

Hello, y'all,

 

It's been quite a while since I checked in on the forums, literally years, as I've not had a great amount of spare time. I looked at this item on eBay which spurred interest to check the forums for a discussion on it (I was sure there would be, but I found only this discussion on duets vs. anglos).

 

eBay item number: 300089641704

 

Unfortunately, at the time of this post, there is only about four hours left for the auction.

 

I play anglo a little more than passably (mostly Irish) but for the past two and a half years, I've been struggling with Maccann duet. I own a Lachenal 46B (anyone interested?), and a 72B (mfg. 1938) and 81B (mfg. 1910) Wheatstone.

 

For me, the duets are much more fun to play than the anglo, even though I still can't play the (expletive deleted) things. I'm starting to get passable. The reasons I like the things are that they are very 'piano-like,' and the five octave range sounds so rich.

 

Problems I have with learning include 1) it's hard for me to have two hands doing different things at the same time, 2) the Maccann layout is quite 'interesting,' 3) it's hard to read bass clef after 25+ years of treble, and even more difficult to read two lines at the same time.

 

Despite the difficulties, I'm having quite a bit of fun making bad noises and have been playing at least six days each week for the past couple years at the great expense of anglo and flute time. Sometimes, though, I'm pretty jealous of the (relative) ease of the Hayden guys & gals.

 

Sounds like I'm, rambling a bit now. What am I trying to say here? I guess I'm pretty addicted to the duet despite not being able to play it well.

 

I'll try to check the forums a bit more, but no guarantees.

[Crane Driver]

it's hard to read bass clef after 25+ years of treble, and even more difficult to read two lines at the same time.

Well, I've never attempted to read bass clef, but I'm a folk singer, not a classical musician. After playing with the instrument for N years, where N is more than I care to recall, my left hand is sufficiently attuned to find something that fits what the right is playing, most of the time. So I don't really think about it, except when it goes horribly wrong. While you can treat the duet like a miniature piano, you don't have to.

 

Now just remind me, why do the words JUDGE and CONCERTINA seem to be familiar?

Is the link Jeffries?

 

Andrew

[Jody Kruskal]

I just posted a reply to doodle here that relates to this thread as well. The main idea is that when the Anglo has 38+ buttons you can play it like a duet when you want to. For those who play both systems (I don't), is this idea of mine off the wall? Or does it make sense?

[ragtimer]

I just posted a reply to doodle here that relates to this thread as well. The main idea is that when the Anglo has 38+ buttons you can play it like a duet when you want to. For those who play both systems (I don't), is this idea of mine off the wall? Or does it make sense?

Well, it makes sense the way Jody plays (as in his "Naked Concertina" album) I think I was the guy who said that Jody "plays Anglo like a Duet" and Jody seems to have taken this in a positive way, whew!

 

I'd say anyone who already plays Anglo and wants a more Duet-like style, should indeed step up to a 38+ button Anglo and keep practicing till he can play like Jody or his widow sells the box

 

But for someone starting out, who wants the Duet style, I'd expect that he/she could be playing in a passable Duet fashion with less practice time than learning to play chordal Anglo, or chordal EC.

 

Again, it comes back to what musical style you want to play, and choosing the instrument that fits that best.

But FWIW, some days I rest my left hand on my Hayden Duet and jsut play the melody in the RH, and concentrate on phrasing and expression -- and even fantasize getting and EC or Anglo. Melodies are cool!

--Mike K.

[Dirge]

I've found myself doing that too, particularly with slower mournful stuff, concentrating on getting the melody smooth and well phrased without the distraction of added chords. It can sound surprisingly (to a duet player) nice.

 

Perhaps you're right, Ragtimer; perhaps we should go English for this; there's surely something unsporting about being able to do it all with one hand!

[Jody Kruskal]

I do that too. Just playing melody alone without any chords lets the melody have much more depth and richness. Another very fine thing I like to do is to play both hands but let melody have priority over the chords... that is, let the chords happen, but give my attention to the melody and let it be long and smooth or what ever it wants to be. I take all the resources (brain power, bellows breath, bellows direction) and devote them to melody with just enough left over to let the chords sort of function on their own. This conceptual way of playing really changes my sound.

[David Barnert]

Perhaps you're right, Ragtimer; perhaps we should go English for this; there's surely something unsporting about being able to do it all with one hand!

As a Hayden Duet player, I would have to say that quickly-moving melodies can be played more fluently with two hands (on an English) than with one (on a Hayden).

[m3838]

Tne EC chordal idea lives in the world of guitar, where one plays a melody, sprincle a harmony, then does the chords only, then goes back to melody etc. It's yet another style, and as far as I can tell, most people, who listen, like it more, than driving accompaniment all the time. Perhabs it has to do with concertina voice or something. EC is naturally suited for this. Of couse you can make your balalaika sound like a piano and vice versa, but why not use the natural predispositions? I personally went with the EC exactly because it can't drive Oom-pa, so I have to be inventive. So far it feels better for me. As for Oom-pa, nothing beats accordion and I still have some lingering, hoping to get back to them some day (sure ).

Plus the EC is easy to read with, and it doesn't really favour any key, so it's more convinient in my convoluted life with tight schedules. If I had time, I'd go with a duet, 20 button AC, 2 row diatonic accordion, harmonica and Ukulele. But so far...