Tuning Issue

[dave17120]

I'm sure someone here will know and be able to advise........ my friend has a fairly modern melodeon (I don't know off-hand what make, but can find out if necessary) It seems to be in tune with itself, as it were, but the A is showing at 442. Before I tell her its out of tune, is there more than one accepted convention for tuning these???? I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Salvation Army tuned stuff NOT to 440?

It sounds terrible with a low whistle that registers an A at 435!! (another issue)

Any information appreciated. Thanks, Dave

[Theo]

For some reason it is quite common for new melodeons and piano accordions to be tuned very slightly above 440.

[malcolm clapp]

For some reason it is quite common for new melodeons and piano accordions to be tuned very slightly above 440.

 

But even at 440, it's going to sound pretty ordinary with a whistle in 435

 

MC

[Johann]

Many modern boxes are tuned to 442 Hz in this days, so for sure there is not a real standard even today.

And if i am not mistaken you do refer to a diatonic box with two rows (or may be tree).

If this it is the case it is very likely that the scale implemented on it is not a equal tempered scale.

So it depends a lot on the box.

The relative note's of a diatonic scale in use on each row can have different absolute values depending on the scale in use on each row.

If it is a diatonic scale staring with the note C the 6th note A may be considerably lower as 440 HZ.

If it is a diatonic scale starting with the note A also the 6th note is lower but this time it is the Fis that is lower relative to the equal temper scale.

So if one does not know how the box ware tuned in the first place one has to be very careful not to destroy the scale implemented originally.

If the Customer is not complaining don't change it at all.

If the complete notes are checked and the maximum offset of notes is within 15 cents to the average of all notes, then this may also be intended in the first place depending on the scale or method of tuning in use in the first place.

Even on chromatic boxes it is not a in every case a fact that equal temper scale war implemented on it in the first place.

[dave17120]

Many modern boxes are tuned to 442 Hz in this days, so for sure there is not a real standard even today.

And if i am not mistaken you do refer to a diatonic box with two rows (or may be tree).

 

Thanks Johann, it is a diatonic box with 2 rows. It is very helpful to know that it is probably as the maker intended (even if I don't fully understand all the reasons). I guess everyone else must tune to the box player in this case. Thanks, dave

[Clive Thorne]

Surely one reason for this is that, in the 'mass' produced models at least, they start with two reeds tuned to 440, then tune one reed upwards to give the tremelo. If they want a 4 Hz tremelo then they tune the one reed up by 4 Hz. The result with both reeds going is thus a 442Hz note with a 4Hz tremelo, ie the note you hear is sharp by 2 hertz.

 

If you have a permanent tremolo system (like a pokerwork) then you can tune one reed up by 2Hz, and one down by 2Hz, so the note heard is still 440Hz, which is what I used to do with mine.

 

BUT: If you have stops to take the tremelo out then you really want the remaining note(s) to be at 440 (especially in a LMMH box, for example) so that you can have LMH without any tremelo in standard (440) tuning. Thus the only option is to have the 'tremolo' reed sharp (or flat) and all other reeds standard.

 

Besides, with a tremelo going you are less likely to notice the instrument being slightly sharp.

 

Fortunatley with concertinas being almost all single reed instruments they are not afflicted by this dilema.

 

 

Of course, your friends instrument could simply be out of tune!

 

Clive.

Edited March 12, 2007 by Clive Thorne

[Stephen Chambers]

Dave,

 

There are potentially several factors going on here, and Clive has already mentioned the chief one that I was going to suggest, but though it was formerly normal practice (and still is with some harmonicas) I'm not aware of any modern melodeon makers (except the Cajuns, but they don't do it properly) who tune to unequally tempered scales (though if you know of any who still do it Johann, I'd like to get them to tune my own accordions that way!).

 

The second reed dragging the overall pitch sharp seems the most likely explanation, but otherwise A-442 (or sharper!) is quite a commonly used pitch for orchestral wind instruments, and for that matter it is said that it was once common to tune solo concertinas a little sharp to make them stand out above the backing instruments. It certainly isn't anything to worry about.

 

The International "Concert Pitch" of A-440 was only agreed in 1939, so it wasn't really implemented until after the Second World War. But it wasn't viable for the Salvation Army and other brass/wind bands to replace all their instruments to play at the new pitch, so English manufacturers (like Boosey & Hawkes) continued to make instruments in the old High Pitch (A-456) into the 1960s, alongside the new Low Pitch (A-440) ones, and they were marked HP or LP accordingly. For that matter, there are still marching-flute (fife) bands that prefer to play at high pitch because it is shriller and carries better, and high pitch instruments are still being made for them.

 

The pitch of the whistle is another matter, as you said. One-piece (non-tunable) low whistles are usually made a little flat in pitch because wind instruments go sharp as they warm up with playing, the idea being that their warmed-up pitch should be A-440. That, and to help prevent clogging, is why low-whistle players in bands are sometimes to be seen holding the instrument under their arm to warm up.