Jump to content

Addicted Beginner!


Recommended Posts

Hi everyone! I just received my Jackie, and I've spent the good part of the last couple of days getting the hang of playing it. It's really a great sounding and playing little box for the money, and I'm having a lot of fun with it.

 

I've learned a lot of instruments, and I know how big of a deal it is to eliminate bad habits while you're first learning, so I have a few concerns/questions.

 

I've seen some EC players rest the weight of the instrument on the left knee, centered on the bellows, and allowing the bellows to open naturally at the top, as in

of brilliant playing posted on youtube by profrat.

 

However, I've heard once or twice that doing this is the quickest way to wear away at the bellows, and that the left side should be anchored on the knee, and the right hand should do the pulling and pushing, supporting that half of the instrument with the thumb and pinky. I've spent my first few hours trying this, and my right thumb and pinky are getting considerably sore, even with what I seem to diagnose as correct technique from the vids I've seen.

 

Does anyone have any advice for a beginner? thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi everyone! I just received my Jackie, and I've spent the good part of the last couple of days getting the hang of playing it. It's really a great sounding and playing little box for the money, and I'm having a lot of fun with it.

 

I've learned a lot of instruments, and I know how big of a deal it is to eliminate bad habits while you're first learning, so I have a few concerns/questions.

 

I've seen some EC players rest the weight of the instrument on the left knee, centered on the bellows, and allowing the bellows to open naturally at the top, as in

of brilliant playing posted on youtube by profrat.

 

However, I've heard once or twice that doing this is the quickest way to wear away at the bellows, and that the left side should be anchored on the knee, and the right hand should do the pulling and pushing, supporting that half of the instrument with the thumb and pinky. I've spent my first few hours trying this, and my right thumb and pinky are getting considerably sore, even with what I seem to diagnose as correct technique from the vids I've seen.

 

Does anyone have any advice for a beginner? thanks!

 

OK. I have a Jackie, a Jack and recently recieved Morse Albion as a trial before ordering.

Jackie is a bit more sluggish than Morse. But I think the real difference will come in the future, depending if it falls apart and go off tune or not.

Morse is very light and bellows expand easily, the sound comes out easier, so there is no real need to rest bellows on the knee. With Jackie it seems the only way to go.

All accordionists rest their huge instruments on the knee - no wear reported. To ensure bellows safety, put some soft cloth on your knee under the bellows and you'll be fine for years. Another trick is to put some strap down, so the bellows expand fan-like. But the best approach is to learn to "fan out" the bellows from the start, so your action is not out-in, but down-up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen some EC players rest the weight of the instrument on the left knee, centered on the bellows, and allowing the bellows to open naturally at the top, as in
of brilliant playing posted on youtube by profrat.

 

Does anyone have any advice for a beginner? thanks!

Devin

 

Congratulations on your acquisition. :D I have a Morse Albion and I may be the wrong one to look to for good habits. Most of the time I sit with my concertina between my legs and is supported by my elbows on my thighs. The bellows don't touch my legs. I suppose it's not the best recommendation. :unsure:

 

Appearances can be deceiving. That concertina in the video has been modified by a strap on the bottom to allow the use of four fingers instead of using the pinky rest. An ingenious invention to allow more fingering options, and I agree he plays exceptionally well.

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...ost&p=50248

 

 

Thanks

Leo

Edited by Leo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen some EC players rest the weight of the instrument on the left knee, centered on the bellows, and allowing the bellows to open naturally at the top, as in

of brilliant playing posted on youtube by profrat.

 

Does anyone have any advice for a beginner? thanks!

Devin

 

Congratulations on your acquisition. :D I have a Morse Albion and I may be the wrong one to look to for good habits. Most of the time I sit with my concertina between my legs and is supported by my elbows on my thighs. The bellows don't touch my legs. I suppose it's not the best recommendation. :unsure:

 

Appearances can be deceiving. That concertina in the video has been modified by a strap on the bottom to allow the use of four fingers instead of using the pinky rest. An ingenious invention to allow more fingering options, and I agree he plays exceptionally well.

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...ost&p=50248

 

 

Thanks

Leo

 

Leo it makes my back ache to even think about the way you are hunched up over your instrument.Sitting upright with the bellows on one or other knees enables you to play in a session for four hours without suffering back pain the next day.A headache from drinking is optional.

Al

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All accordionists rest their huge instruments on the knee - no wear reported.

 

I have to disagree on both counts.

 

Not all accordionists rest their instruments on their knee. Many do, and bellows wear most certainly can be a problem. I've repaired and replaced may accordion bellows that were worn on the lower edge and on the back from rubbing against the players legs and chest. Concertina bellows also do wear from rubbing in the players leg or knee. It is a slow process though and only likely to get to the point of needing repair after long period of playing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen some EC players rest the weight of the instrument on the left knee, centered on the bellows, and allowing the bellows to open naturally at the top, as in
of brilliant playing posted on youtube by profrat.

 

However, I've heard once or twice that doing this is the quickest way to wear away at the bellows, and that the left side should be anchored on the knee, and the right hand should do the pulling and pushing, supporting that half of the instrument with the thumb and pinky. I've spent my first few hours trying this, and my right thumb and pinky are getting considerably sore, even with what I seem to diagnose as correct technique from the vids I've seen.

 

 

Yes, Danny (profrat) is brilliant isn't he. He also has a top-notch instrument in very good shape. His technique will not damage the bellows of your Jackie. However, I can't imagine that your instrument is anywhere near as air tight as Danny's Wheatstone.

 

Resting the left end on the knee is a way to go, and yes in the beginning there will be discomfort. I suggest you let up on the pressure you apply to the pinky finger. It doesn't really need to support the weight of the instrument. In fact, the more aquainted you become with the English, the less you may even have the pinky on the rest.

 

Try switching between the to positions. Hey, even hold the intrument above your lap. I tend to do both, plus standing while playing without the benefit of a neck strap. You'll find what feels best.

 

Added thought: It seems to me that an Engish technique is all about minimalizm. Find out just how little bellows pressure it takes to make your Jackie's reeds sound from a good piano (soft) to a session forte (loud). If you are a' tall' like me, you'll discover you've been over playing the instrument.

Edited by Mark Evans
Link to comment
Share on other sites

All accordionists rest their huge instruments on the knee - no wear reported.

 

I have to disagree on both counts.

 

Not all accordionists rest their instruments on their knee. Many do, and bellows wear most certainly can be a problem. I've repaired and replaced may accordion bellows that were worn on the lower edge and on the back from rubbing against the players legs and chest. Concertina bellows also do wear from rubbing in the players leg or knee. It is a slow process though and only likely to get to the point of needing repair after long period of playing.

 

Let me clear the issue.

Correct playing of the accordion requires sitting down. When you sit down, you let the instrument rest on your knee and have a gap between bellows pleats and one's chest, so no wear should be present. Fanning out the bellows eliminates another area of wearing. If play standing, or drag bellows over rough material of pants - here 's a problem, resulting from incorrect playing technique. There is no safe way to approach incorrect playing technique :D.

Another suggestion of letting off the pinkie rest is good. Holding the instrument between thumb and a pinkie is counter-productive. BTW, originally you were supposed to hold English Concertina with two fingers on "pinkie" rest and a thumb in a strap! :huh: .

Mark and I came with opposite suggestions, using the same reasons. New Jackie is as airtight as Morse. It's bellows are flexible enough to be fanned quite far out. I would advocated knee rest for the reason of more control - important in the beginning.

Jackie's bellows are narrrower than the ends, so, if you keep bottom end of bellows squeezed - they will touch the surface of the knee very lightly, if at all. But it's important quesiton for the correct position. Your hands are more expencive to fix than bellows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To ensure bellows safety, put some soft cloth on your knee under the bellows and you'll be fine for years.

Rather than use cloth, I use a piece of chamois leather to rest my box on whilst playing (basing my theory on the fact that leather against leather is less likely to create wear than leather against cloth).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or you could take the view that your chief aim is to produce a good noise and that worrying about repair bills in the distant future is counterproductive. I don't fiddle about with protective cloths; I thought about it but decided that if I have to have the bellows on my Wheatstones rebound sometime in the future, well that will be well worth it if it means that I practice on the slightest whim (as I do; play a tune while my wife puts on her lipstick, that sort of thing) and thus move my playing on faster.

 

Duet players usually clamp down the right hand end, that's where the fastest work usually happens so it's the best end to keep stable. I'd have thought for an English you could 'fix' whichever end felt comfortable. Wear from rubbing on legs should be minimal anyway, using this technique

 

But surely the Alastair Andersons of this world not only advocate holding the thing high in the trad way but then make a virtue of it by waving it around to vary tone and sound. I thought this was a big plus for the English. You couldn't do it with an Anglo, and with difficulty with a duet. I was very impressed with the effects AA seemed to achieve with his mobile approach. And this also avoids wear AND the need for cloths. It also means you'd learn, right from the start, to play standing, which as a rooted-to-the-spot duet player I'd be jealous of.

 

(Incidentally I'd argue with your statement that 'correct playing of the accordian requires sitting down' M3838. Wear-free playing might; but there wasn't anything I couldn't do with equal ease standing or sitting. Big shirt buttons aside, of course...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been fighting with playing it quite a few different ways, and I'm certainly having better control over the fingering since I stopped relying as much on the pinky rest. I've had the best results with the bellows on the knee and opening and closing from the top, but I just found a way to mount a strap to the Jackie without having to install any extra hardware to it. Playing standing up is a whole different ballgame, but considering the kind of music I aim to play, I think the extra effort should pay off.

 

But surely the Alastair Andersons of this world not only advocate holding the thing high in the trad way but then make a virtue of it by waving it around to vary tone and sound. I thought this was a big plus for the English. You couldn't do it with an Anglo, and with difficulty with a duet.

 

I looked up a few photos of him, and it doesn't look like he uses a neck strap. Does he just staple the thing to his wrists, or is he using two fingers on the rest to hold the weight of the instrument?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been fighting with playing it quite a few different ways, and I'm certainly having better control over the fingering since I stopped relying as much on the pinky rest. I've had the best results with the bellows on the knee and opening and closing from the top, but I just found a way to mount a strap to the Jackie without having to install any extra hardware to it. Playing standing up is a whole different ballgame, but considering the kind of music I aim to play, I think the extra effort should pay off.

 

Hi folks, some additional note to the accordion:

First thing: the really biiig boxes have an extra cloth (a bit like a small pillow type of thing or thin plastic) between chest and bellows to avoid damaging the bellows during the years. If not you´ll see after quite some time the black material being rubbed off.

Second thing: one of the corners of the bellows actually sits on the leg (next to the pelvis) and have metal caps on all corners for protection. When pulling you´d move it out and downwards and there is not really a lot of contact to the leg anyway.

 

Back to the concertina:

I still find it difficult to sort of bend it over the leg having the bellows placed actually on the leg. I prefer the left-side-on-the-leg-version. It still makes it easier for me if I have the left leg higher than the right (concertina case will do) - I find it easier to take control over the instrument.

And I use to walk around while playing not standing :-)

it makes me stop thinking about holding the instrument or when which finger where - I just play while moving through the flat.

Since one week I´ve got a new instrument, playing it like mad and no effects on thumbs or little finger at all.

 

greetings

Christian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To ensure bellows safety, put some soft cloth on your knee under the bellows and you'll be fine for years.

Rather than use cloth, I use a piece of chamois leather to rest my box on whilst playing (basing my theory on the fact that leather against leather is less likely to create wear than leather against cloth).

 

Glad to hear someone else uses a chamois (so I didn't make that part up in ignorance). I've taken to using a scrap of ultrasuade-- my wife's favorite quilt store has pieces about 8" by 10" which fit perfectly and neatly on the knee I balance the concertina on. My concertinas from circa 1850 still have their original bellows (I think-- that was the opinion of Button box when I had one of them restored). I figure giving them some protestion from wear is worth a little care at least.

 

When I was starting I found I needed the stability that came with anchoring one end on a knee so that the buttons stayed in a consistent orientation. Since my thumbs have gotten stronger and my technique has gotten more stable I can play standing up if necessary, but I still like the greater control I have when the left end is sitting on the knee of my left leg, which is crossed over the right so the height works for the length of my arms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But surely the Alastair Andersons of this world not only advocate holding the thing high in the trad way but then make a virtue of it by waving it around to vary tone and sound. I thought this was a big plus for the English. You couldn't do it with an Anglo, and with difficulty with a duet. I was very impressed with the effects AA seemed to achieve with his mobile approach. And this also avoids wear AND the need for cloths. It also means you'd learn, right from the start, to play standing, which as a rooted-to-the-spot duet player I'd be jealous of.

 

(Incidentally I'd argue with your statement that 'correct playing of the accordian requires sitting down' M3838. Wear-free playing might; but there wasn't anything I couldn't do with equal ease standing or sitting. Big shirt buttons aside, of course...)

 

I'm very curious of how AA plays those big chords or how he navigates around the keyboard while playing melody in the high range and counter-melody in the lower range. I find that even with 8 fingers available and relative dexterity (5 years of CBA study) it is often a challenge, but again, I'm just a beginner, so what do I know?

About the accordions standing. Well, my ideas come from Russian school, shoved down my brain by my teacher. The idea is that performance is often done standing, but it's relatively short, while practice takes 10 times more time and is done sitting.

Sitting correctly elimitates wear. My bayan was 40 years old, played 6-8 hours daily and has very light chuffing on the bottom. Clear sign of professional owner (and I know the owner, creative director of State Folk Ansamble in Moscow, who this instrument was made for).

I like the idea of waving concertina around, but see no chance of me doing it so far.

Oh yes, and I too use Chamou leather.

Edited by m3838
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Glad to hear that you're enjoying that Jackie, Devin. A couple of weeks ago while playing a gig on bass, I also played concertina on a few of the numbers. It was most convenient to rest it on my knee whilst standing with one leg on my amp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi

I use a pad of non slip material (sort of rubberish mesh) mainly to stop the concertina from slipping around on my knee. I guess it would also reduce the wear. I notice that most people tend to hold the concertina on the left knee. I wonder on what basis they do this. I am right-handed but hold the concertina on the right knee. Does being right-handed or left-handed make a difference :blink:

chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Think it's a matter of how you're comfortable.

 

I too, hold the concertina on the edge of the right knee. But then I play melody across from the left side to the right and back. Also sing with it. Only just managing to change rows when needed, but mostly it's up and down the line so to speak.

 

Chas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi

I use a pad of non slip material (sort of rubberish mesh) mainly to stop the concertina from slipping around on my knee. I guess it would also reduce the wear. I notice that most people tend to hold the concertina on the left knee. I wonder on what basis they do this. I am right-handed but hold the concertina on the right knee. Does being right-handed or left-handed make a difference :blink:

chris

 

 

I recall a discussion on this with poll a while back. In the end, it seems different strokes, different folks.

 

So the instrument feels like it is slipping around on your knee? Some elevate the the leg to insure a more secure resting place for the concertina or has been said here a non-slip cloth. I would think that worry about slipping could cause tension in the fingers which is going to lead to a reduced facility on the buttons, eventual pain in the tendons of the hands and frustration.

 

My old 64 note Aeola was a heavy gal and while sitting I used the case to rest my foot on and a lovely chamois across my left knee. In retrospect I might have reinstalled the neck and hand straps I am now sure where on it before it came into my life.

 

My Morse makes all that a non-issue. I do miss that Aeola though.

Edited by Mark Evans
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi

I use a pad of non slip material (sort of rubberish mesh) mainly to stop the concertina from slipping around on my knee. I guess it would also reduce the wear. I notice that most people tend to hold the concertina on the left knee. I wonder on what basis they do this. I am right-handed but hold the concertina on the right knee. Does being right-handed or left-handed make a difference :blink:

chris

 

Having it placed on the left leg you can easily free your right hand to reach your glass or cigarettes, for right-handed people that is of course.

:ph34r:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...