Leo Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 An interesting side effect of Ebays new bidder privacy protection on bids over $200US http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,...2570050,00.html It seems there is now no way to see if sellers are bidding up the prices of their own auctions. Apparently it's common. Listen to the two audio clips. They are enlightening. The last line says it's now a "safer environment". However they don't comment on this developement, although Ebay assured us it wouldn't happen, and I don't suspect there is any way to see if we are bidding against the seller. Another opinion: http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y07/m01/i16/s01 Last week Ebay admitted their new system won't completely stop second chance scams gleaned from phishing: http://www.virusbtn.com/news/spam_news/2007/01_10.xml Oh well back to concertinas they're more fun. Thanks Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 There's not much difference between bidding against a seller and bidding against pre-set reserve, really. I wouldn't get to worried. As for Ebay, well their bread and butter is small value tat and it's not worth their while being too interested, is it? Their margins would vanish. They could give a better service but they have a monopoly and don't need to bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 (edited) There's not much difference between bidding against a seller and bidding against pre-set reserve, really. I wouldn't get to worried. As for Ebay, well their bread and butter is small value tat and it's not worth their while being too interested, is it? Their margins would vanish. They could give a better service but they have a monopoly and don't need to bother. Dirge Yes I suppose the technicality of "shill bidding" in the states being a criminal offence, and the threat of being banned from Ebay for getting caught could be considered not much difference. The only thing I would be worried about is keeping my own hard earned money in my own pocket rather than allowing it to be dwindled slowly by unscrupulous sellers. Fortunes are made and lost on small margins, however I would consider an increase of 5% to 10% a lot. I wish I could increase my rate of return that much (legally). With the active interest in concertinas from Ebay here, I suppose time will tell if in their zeal of trying to eliminate second chance scamers, that they haven't opened the opportunity for other types of fraud to expand. I suspect now if we get a second chance offer rather than being a scam I might be more worried it comes from one of these operations, and I might have second thoughts about agreeing to it. It has now become a secret bidding process with the added advantage of not being able to tell if friends are bidding against each other, not knowing it, and eliminating a lot of the warnings here about scams and checking the backround of the people we're exchanging money with. I use Ebay for both buying and selling only occasionally, and know of a few other online services that are pretty good. Ebay isn't the only game in town, but they are the largest. Time will tell if my worry is for nothing. One can only hope it is. Thanks Leo (oops Ivan I see we were posting at the same time. Sorry) Edited January 30, 2007 by Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Viehoff Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 There's not much difference between bidding against a seller and bidding against pre-set reserve, really. I wouldn't get to worried. At one level you are right. But the reality is that market information is being distorted. Suppose you watch a few auctions for similar items to see what they go for. You would presume that by observing the resulting prices you get an idea of what is the buyer's valuation of those things, given their availability. But if those auctions are infected by shill bidding and haven't always achieved genuine sales, then that important market information is being distorted. One often sees new goods of some value (eg, would be sold in a shop for £100 or more) advertised on ebay without reserve with a low start bid. As soon as I saw such things, I immediately assumed sellers engaged in shill bidding to protect themselves, probably using a library of sock-puppets (ie aliases) to achieve that. It may cost them a bit in commissions, but presumably they consider that worth paying, after all you have to pay commission on an auction that fails to reach its reserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Fair point, but, fundamentally, no one makes you pay more than it's worth to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Sylte Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 (edited) Fair point, but, fundamentally, no one makes you pay more than it's worth to you. I agree. In my experience, if you start chasing a high bid at the last minute, you're more likely to end up feeling like you made a bad decision. The right way to use Ebay is to bid what an item is worth to you and let Ebay handle the automatic bidding for you. If you don't know what an item is worth *to you*, don't bid. Place a bid that, if you lose you can sleep at night knowing you didn't pay too much, and if you win you feel like you got a good deal. I don't care who is bidding against me, real or fictitous. Let shill bidders win their own auctions trying to outsmart the system... Edited January 30, 2007 by John Sylte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 (edited) Dirge, Ivan, and John I guess you three put into word what I was trying to think of. Be careful and try not to get caught up in the last minit bidding war. I agree with you on that very important point. Pick a price and stick to it now more than ever. Thanks Leo Edited January 31, 2007 by Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Viehoff Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Fair point, but, fundamentally, no one makes you pay more than it's worth to you. That is true, and that is why I said I agree with you to some extent. But I don't want to pay what it is worth to me, I want to pay what it is worth, and the difference can be large. What is water worth to you when you are thirsty? What is tap-water worth - £1.20 a tonne where I live, a very small amount. Someone exploiting the difference between what it is worth to you and what it is worth can make a very large profit. The reason that monopolists are so hated is because they use techniques to charge people what it is worth to them, rather than what it is worth. Shill bidding conceals what things are worth. It distorts the market. People use it because it is more successful in increasing prices achieved than use of a reserve. If ebay want to avoid 2nd chance scams, there is a very effective and simple way: close the 2nd chance facility. We wouldn't miss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooves Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Theres a fiery place waiting for those foul tempered shillers, a frothing broth of brimstone and bat guano, stirred by rusty pitchforks. Grievious and unloved, the shiller thwarts the hard working digits of the esteemed concertinist, casting his ill bred farthings with grimy twisted vengence. lo the unkempt brow of the pathetic shiller, he has no joy but to torment that which he can not grasp - hobbled in his filthy shack, the shiller swigs sour goats milk, cackling as his fingers fidget over the keyboard glaring with reddened eyes. Wrinkled, broken, a loner with no hope or future, his bent nose scrapes the lid as he reaches for another rotten bid. Off to sup with an evil puckered grin, his work complete, his emptiness sated, he giggles and belches, scratching and itching, merrily to doze with visions of road apples dancing in his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 Theres a fiery place waiting for those foul tempered shillers, a frothing broth of brimstone and bat guano, stirred by rusty pitchforks. Grievious and unloved, the shiller thwarts the hard working digits of the esteemed concertinist, casting his ill bred farthings with grimy twisted vengence. lo the unkempt brow of the pathetic shiller, he has no joy but to torment that which he can not grasp - hobbled in his filthy shack, the shiller swigs sour goats milk, cackling as his fingers fidget over the keyboard glaring with reddened eyes. Wrinkled, broken, a loner with no hope or future, his bent nose scrapes the lid as he reaches for another rotten bid. Off to sup with an evil puckered grin, his work complete, his emptiness sated, he giggles and belches, scratching and itching, merrily to doze with visions of road apples dancing in his head. Gosh and I was thinking of getting into the business. I thought that nobody would know about it. Anonyminity and all. I've been found out, so I guess I can't. Thanks Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Prebble Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Theres a fiery place waiting for those foul tempered shillers, a frothing broth of brimstone and bat guano, stirred by rusty pitchforks. Grievious and unloved, the shiller thwarts the hard working digits of the esteemed concertinist, casting his ill bred farthings with grimy twisted vengence. lo the unkempt brow of the pathetic shiller, he has no joy but to torment that which he can not grasp - hobbled in his filthy shack, the shiller swigs sour goats milk, cackling as his fingers fidget over the keyboard glaring with reddened eyes. Wrinkled, broken, a loner with no hope or future, his bent nose scrapes the lid as he reaches for another rotten bid. Off to sup with an evil puckered grin, his work complete, his emptiness sated, he giggles and belches, scratching and itching, merrily to doze with visions of road apples dancing in his head. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx All of that and more !! Speaking as one who had his ebay identity nicked this week still trying to sort out the mess of false bids, spoof postings and malicious feedback left in my name !! Bring on Satan with a toothache and let him loose Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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