wakasaobama Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Hello. Dear concertina.net people I am Japanese. So, I think I can’t get vintage concertina in my country. But, recently I get Ball Beavon concertina in Japan under 20 key Hohner price! In addition, I get the concertina case with key! The concertina is good condition except valves, pads and hand straps. (C/G 26key bone buttons) It is not so good my heart to meet this good chance, because my heart rate and blood pressure increased too much! I think I will try to repair the concertina. wakasaobama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Timson Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Woh! I'm impressed! Well done! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakasaobama Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share Posted January 27, 2007 (edited) Woh! I'm impressed! Well done! Chris Thank you Dear Chris The concertina is below photo. wakasaobama Edited January 27, 2007 by wakasaobama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdormire Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Looks good. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakasaobama Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 (edited) I have another same wood box. That concertina has name "Jeffries" bought from Mr.Cocoa111. So, I think the originals of these box are made by Crabb. Is this correct? wakasaobama Edited January 28, 2007 by wakasaobama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Groff Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 (edited) Dear wakasaobama, This instrument resembles some Jeffries-stamped 26-key wooden-ended instruments; if it is as similar in sound to those as it looks, it should be a joy when carefully restored. It is always interesting to try to figure out the Ball Beavons. The metal-ended, bone button ones I have seen often have "J. Crabb Maker" stamped on the UNDERSIDE of the metal fretwork, inside the action box. These are also great sounding anglos! Paul Edited January 28, 2007 by Paul Groff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakasaobama Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 Dear Mr.Asdormire and Mr.Paul Groff Thank you for your reply. I open the Ball Beavon. The box has described "8426" in left reed pan. So, the birth of the box as Crabb is 1906. I can't find name in action box. But, this concertina is good original satus. Inside is very clean as like NEW! So, I think she seem to have long vacation in Japan like "Sleeping Beauty". wakasaobama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Groff Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 I open the Ball Beavon. The box has described "8426" in left reed pan. So, the birth of the box as Crabb is 1906. I can't find name in action box. Yes, it is the metal-ended Ball Beavons on which I have seen the internal J. Crabb stamp (so far!). Does your Jeffries-stamped wooden ended one have a Crabb serial number too? Usually the instruments with a Jeffries stamp lack the 4 digit number (but not always). But, this concertina is good original satus. Inside is very clean as like NEW! So, I think she seem to have long vacation in Japan like "Sleeping Beauty". Yes, sometimes the concertinas that wound up in areas of the world without a strong tradition of playing have survived to the present with the least disturbance of their original quality, and so can tell us the most about the maker's ideas about valving, tuning, etc. Quite a few of those I have seen from the USA seem never to have been opened since made. Also the low humidity of (some regions of) the USA, while tough on the woodwork, has sometimes preserved the original condition of the reedwork much more so than was the case for many "original" instruments kept at home in England. Congratulations and be sure to learn all you can from your "time capsule" (actually I prefer "sleeping beauty!") before you hasten to alter its condition in the process of restoring it. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakasaobama Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 Does your Jeffries-stamped wooden ended one have a Crabb serial number too? Usually the instruments with a Jeffries stamp lack the 4 digit number (but not always). Paul Dear Mr.Paul Thank you for your excellent advice. I open Jeffries wood box under your order. unbelievable! The Jeffries has only one digit number! She has No.4 (left reed pan and bilateral fretted end backs) So, She born in 1861!!! I wonder I have No.4 Crabb tuned by Jeffries!!! By the way, my birth year is 1961, so she born before 100years from my birth. The Ball Beavons one born in 1906. The significance year for us. I have H. Crabb one born in 1960. This concertina born one year befor my birth and 100year after No.1 Crabb. I'm touched. wakasaobama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Groff Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 (edited) The Jeffries has only one digit number! She has No.4 (left reed pan and bilateral fretted end backs) So, She born in 1861!!! I wonder I have No.4 Crabb tuned by Jeffries!!! Dear (and fortunate) wakasaobama, Well, that is probably a "batch' number, not a Crabb (or Jeffries) "serial number." Many Jeffries have them, usually from single digits to in the 100s, and it is generally inferred that they refer to groups of instruments made more or less together, rather than a sequence of numbers carried throughout the life of the firm. Wheatstones for example often have a batch number as well as the more-or-less-sequential serial number. I bet Steve Chambers will have more to add, and with luck he will correct me if I have gotten something wrong here. Paul Edited January 28, 2007 by Paul Groff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Jowaisas Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Dear Wakasaobama san, Congratulations!! It makes me feel like there is some cosmic justice at work when an afficionado like yourself finds a great instrument at a great price! Would it be possible for you to post a photo of the underside of of one of the Ball & Beavon reed shoes? And perhaps a similar photo from one of your wood ended Jeffries reed shoes too? I'm looking to see if the venting that I have come to associate with Jeffries instruments is there. Thank you, and again congratulations on your good fortune. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakasaobama Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 (edited) Dear Mr.Paul Thank you for your teaching. I like this Jeffries one. She has beautiful wood and glossy black bellows. This is not No.4, but early Jeffries and Crabb. I treat her with care! Dear Mr.Greg Hello. Thank you! Ball Beavon is first that I see to sell vintage concertina in Japan(without me ). Now Ball Beavon is in my office. So I take Jeffries one's photo. wakasaobama Edited January 29, 2007 by wakasaobama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Hi all, A general note first. All Crabb numbers should be regarded as an identity (ID) number rather than a serial number and must not be considered as a guide to the actual quantity of instruments produced by the Crabb family. It was common practice for all early Crabb instruments, whether for direct sale or supply to dealers etc. to be marked in pencil, internally, with an ID number. At some time?? this practice was discontinued and either a name stamp or the ID number was impressed into the internal woodwork and/or underside of the top in metal-topped instruments. It was found that pencilled numbers were being erased prior to resale to conceal the source of manufacture. Crabb instruments for direct sale have always been named externally, either impressed or engraved into the right hand metal top or on wood top models by the attachment of a name plate to right side. From about 1900 the ID number would usually be displayed, as above, on the left top of the instrument. Crabb instruments from 1895 can be accurately dated to the year and for those before this date, an estimate can be given. To Wakasaobama The earliest Crabb records that indicate instrument (ID) numbers are for 1895 starting at No 8452. From other production records that exist before that date and based on an average yearly rate of production I estimate that your recently acquired Ball Beavon No 8426, if made in the Crabb workshop, would therefore have been made in 1894 by my great grandfather, John. Although wood top Crabb models were fairly common, the fretwork pattern of that time was usually the same as metal top versions. The fretwork on the instrument in question is unfamiliar to me but that does not mean it is not a Crabb. Occasionally a simpler pattern was requested by dealers to reduce the price of some models. For the record, can you tell us what Keys and Temperament the concertina is tuned to? Geoff Crabb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakasaobama Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 Dear Mr.Greg This is Ball Beavons Reed. (I will edit Jeff one) By the way, I have little knowledge about Ball Beavons. Was he dealer? Did he make his own reeds? Dear Mr.Geoffrey Thank you for your lecture. All anglo are tuned C/G. wakasaobama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Groff Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Geoff wrote: "All Crabb numbers should be regarded as an identity (ID) number rather than a serial number and must not be considered as a guide to the actual quantity of instruments produced by the Crabb family." Hi Geoff, Sorry if you feel I have confused this matter. When I used the term "serial number" I really did mean an ID number. In the US, the term "serial number" is often used that way and for example, the "serial numbers" as we call them of Gibson guitars etc., taken all together, are well-known not to reflect the total numbers, or the exact chronological order, of manufacture. The same is true for the "serial numbers" as we call them of many other manufactured products even today. However, with regard to Crabb concertinas, my main goal in writing to wakasaobama was to distinguish the "4- digit numbers" (usually starting with an 8, in the period of wakasaobama's instrument) from the usually 1 or 2 digit "batch numbers." Batch numbers would presumably not be unique for concertinas made by the same shop -- i. e., we would expect to find many Wheatstones (and perhaps multiple Jeffries ?) with a batch number of, for example, "5." The lowest Crabb "serial number" or "ID number" I have personally seen is 8075, evidently well into the shop's history. However, I would never claim that this concertina that is stamped "Ball Beavon" externally and "J. Crabb Maker" inside the metal fretwork is the 8075th concertina made by Crabb! The subsequent very slow annual increase of the 4-digit numbers makes this not credible. In previous posts I and others have discussed the non-chronological sequence of Lachenal and some Wheatstone "serial numbers" and I personally have questioned that all the numbers of Jones instruments are in chronological order. Almost all the writings on Jones numbers seem to assume a chronological order, though I (and I believe Dave Prebble) have found evidence suggesting the contrary in at least some cases. Your point is very important however due to the etymology of "serial number" and the confusion that could be caused by the misunderstanding of this term. You have gotten me wondering whether we should avoid using it for Gibson guitars etc. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Müller Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Omedetooooo! /Henrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakasaobama Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 Omedetooooo! /Henrik Dear Mr.Herink Arigatoooooo! By the way, I saw your home pages. you seem to like concertina figure. My friend collect accordion doll. Please see following pages. http://www.geocities.co.jp/Hollywood-Stage/8883/ (He plays C/G melodeon.) wakasaobama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Jowaisas Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Thank you for the pictures, Wakasaobama san, May you and your concertinas make beautiful music together for many years. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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