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Beginner's Finggering Question


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OK, so I've now borrowed a non-leaking English. Instead of 6 notes to a bellows stroke, I can now do about 3 consecutive scales to a stroke. Progress indeed. :)

 

My background is Morris dancing, so I know a lot of Morris tunes that I can already play on either the harmonica or the melodeon. The obvious thing to do with the concertina is to use some of the simpler ones for practice.

 

So here's the question: playing in G, I have a phrase that includes the note sequence G, D, G. That's three consecutive notes on two adjacent buttons that I would normally play with the same finger - in this case, my left index finger.

 

Is the right way forward to learn to do this fast with my left index finger, or to learn something more complex and gymnastic with my other fingers? The key layout does not obviously lend itself to playing notes on the same row with different fingers.

 

Advice please. :unsure:

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So here's the question: playing in G, I have a phrase that includes the note sequence G, D, G. That's three consecutive notes on two adjacent buttons that I would normally play with the same finger - in this case, my left index finger.

Hi Mike,

 

I think that the key thing when investigating, or trying to learn, a new instrument, is for the fingers to be completely relaxed. Not always easy, when fumbling around! The more relaxed you are, the faster and easier will be your playing.

 

I would finger as you have suggested, above, for "basic" tunes like the Morris, particularly if you are only playing single line melody. If you are playing more complex music, including chords, or counter-melody, then you will have to consider the possibility of more complex fingering (and I can't help you there!). However, that will not be this year's project.

 

What might be worth trying, once you have learnt a few basic tunes, is trying to play them in different keys. So, if it's in G, try it in C or D. That way, you'll learn the keyboard layout a bit faster (in my opinion).

 

Let us know how you get on.

 

Regards,

Peter.

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OK, so I've now borrowed a non-leaking English. Instead of 6 notes to a bellows stroke, I can now do about 3 consecutive scales to a stroke. Progress indeed. :)

 

My background is Morris dancing, so I know a lot of Morris tunes that I can already play on either the harmonica or the melodeon. The obvious thing to do with the concertina is to use some of the simpler ones for practice.

 

So here's the question: playing in G, I have a phrase that includes the note sequence G, D, G. That's three consecutive notes on two adjacent buttons that I would normally play with the same finger - in this case, my left index finger.

 

Is the right way forward to learn to do this fast with my left index finger, or to learn something more complex and gymnastic with my other fingers? The key layout does not obviously lend itself to playing notes on the same row with different fingers.

 

Advice please. :unsure:

 

Hmm.

If you hold the concertina, using the pinkie rest, I'd say, play with the same finger and use it as an embellishment.

If you are sitting down, holding your concertina on your knee, and use 4 fingers, you may try to tilt the instrument forward a bit and use two adjuscent fingers on two dajuscent buttons.

Or learn to lift fingers fast enugh, so you'll use two fingers for G/D, but you remove one, that's in a way, fast enough, so it wan't matter.

But from my limited experience, as you start learning 3 note chrods and melody, the question about which fingers to use, will fall off by itself.

But why would you play Morris tunes on an English? Just for the heck of it?

I don't think you'll learn anything special. You already play them on two instruments! Go forward, challenge yourself with the unknown.

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OK, so I've now borrowed a non-leaking English. Instead of 6 notes to a bellows stroke, I can now do about 3 consecutive scales to a stroke. Progress indeed. :)

 

My background is Morris dancing, so I know a lot of Morris tunes that I can already play on either the harmonica or the melodeon. The obvious thing to do with the concertina is to use some of the simpler ones for practice.

 

So here's the question: playing in G, I have a phrase that includes the note sequence G, D, G. That's three consecutive notes on two adjacent buttons that I would normally play with the same finger - in this case, my left index finger.

 

Is the right way forward to learn to do this fast with my left index finger, or to learn something more complex and gymnastic with my other fingers? The key layout does not obviously lend itself to playing notes on the same row with different fingers.

 

Advice please. :unsure:

 

Hmm.

If you hold the concertina, using the pinkie rest, I'd say, play with the same finger and use it as an embellishment.

If you are sitting down, holding your concertina on your knee, and use 4 fingers, you may try to tilt the instrument forward a bit and use two adjuscent fingers on two dajuscent buttons.

Or learn to lift fingers fast enugh, so you'll use two fingers for G/D, but you remove one, that's in a way, fast enough, so it wan't matter.

But from my limited experience, as you start learning 3 note chrods and melody, the question about which fingers to use, will fall off by itself.

But why would you play Morris tunes on an English? Just for the heck of it?

I don't think you'll learn anything special. You already play them on two instruments! Go forward, challenge yourself with the unknown.

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OK, so I've now borrowed a non-leaking English. Instead of 6 notes to a bellows stroke, I can now do about 3 consecutive scales to a stroke. Progress indeed. :)

 

My background is Morris dancing, so I know a lot of Morris tunes that I can already play on either the harmonica or the melodeon. The obvious thing to do with the concertina is to use some of the simpler ones for practice.

 

So here's the question: playing in G, I have a phrase that includes the note sequence G, D, G. That's three consecutive notes on two adjacent buttons that I would normally play with the same finger - in this case, my left index finger.

 

Is the right way forward to learn to do this fast with my left index finger, or to learn something more complex and gymnastic with my other fingers? The key layout does not obviously lend itself to playing notes on the same row with different fingers.

 

Advice please. :unsure:

 

Hmm.

If you hold the concertina, using the pinkie rest, I'd say, play with the same finger and use it as an embellishment.

If you are sitting down, holding your concertina on your knee, and use 4 fingers, you may try to tilt the instrument forward a bit and use two adjuscent fingers on two dajuscent buttons.

Or learn to lift fingers fast enugh, so you'll use two fingers for G/D, but you remove one, that's in a way, fast enough, so it wan't matter.

But from my limited experience, as you start learning 3 note chrods and melody, the question about which fingers to use, will fall off by itself.

But why would you play Morris tunes on an English? Just for the heck of it?

I don't think you'll learn anything special. You already play them on two instruments! Go forward, challenge yourself with the unknown.

 

 

 

I think there is a general rule of never playing two consecutive notes with the same finger, even if you can get away with it with a slow tempo tune it's better to practice using separate fingers. If it is the same note G,G,G you would alternate index and middle fingers. In the case you mentioned G,D,G I would use the middle finger to reach up to the D.

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But why would you play Morris tunes on an English? Just for the heck of it?

Why not I get along fine as do the other two players in my team on English concertinas. Please don't start a "you can't play morris on an English" to join the "you can't play Irish on an English"!

 

Westminster_DoD_2004_09.jpg

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In the case you mentioned G,D,G I would use the middle finger to reach up to the D.

 

It is whatever the player finds easiest or most comfortable, plus thinking of where the different fingers have come from and where they are needed next. For myself in the G,D,G sequence, I would find it easier to use the middle finger on G and index finger for the higher D.

 

John Wild

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In the case you mentioned G,D,G I would use the middle finger to reach up to the D.

 

It is whatever the player finds easiest or most comfortable...

 

Actually I (mostly) disagree with this advice because there are so many things that seem weird or uncomfortable at first, but after getting over that hurdle (which can take anything from hours to months) they seem perfectly natural - and in the end FAR more natural than the intial way. If you put in the effort to get over the hurdles then you'll be much better equipped to play music you want it to sound, rather than the way it falls under the fingers (i.e. phrasing should be musical, not an artifact of the instrument mechanics).

 

Examples of things that initially feel really unnatural are alternating fingers for repeated notes, using 3 fingers for repeated notes, thumb-position on cello, the "classical" way of holding a violin etc. There's a reason musical instrument teachers exist - people who just do what comes "naturally" often don't get very far!

 

But... firstly don't do anything that causes pain, or you think might cause physical problems! And secondly differentiate between how you play for performance and how you play for practice (ideally don't perform anything if you can't actually play it like you'd want to practice it... but that isn't always possible).

 

In this case, My first choice would be to play 2nd (middle) finger on the G, then 1st (index) on D, then 2nd on the G. In this case the 2nd finger can "hover" over the G whilst playing the D, and it can be as smooth or staccato as you like.

 

Second choice would be to play 1st on G, then 2nd on D, then 1st on G. In this case my 1st finger moves "up" (to hover approx over the G#) whilst playing the D, and similarly the 2nd finger moves "down" whilst playing the G. This is similar to what happens if you alternate fingers on a single note.

 

Third choice is to use the same finger (either 1 or 2, probably) for both notes. The reason it's a 3rd choice is that the minimum duration of the gap between the notes stays constant however fast you play the tune. This means that when you learn the (or a) tune slowly it may be fine... but when you work it up to speed the phrasing/timing may well become impossible to get right.

 

However, as John says, it depends on what happens before in the tune, and what comes next too...

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It is whatever the player finds easiest or most comfortable...

 

Actually I (mostly) disagree with this advice because there are so many things that seem weird or uncomfortable at first, but after getting over that hurdle (which can take anything from hours to months) they seem perfectly natural

 

Thanks Danny.

 

I'll amend my previous comment and agree that what a player finds easiest may always not be best. However, it is still true that what seems to work well for one will not work for another, as we have seen in the alternative suggestions for the G,D,G, sequence.

 

Best wishes

 

John Wild

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It is whatever the player finds easiest or most comfortable...

 

Actually I (mostly) disagree with this advice because there are so many things that seem weird or uncomfortable at first, but after getting over that hurdle (which can take anything from hours to months) they seem perfectly natural

 

Thanks Danny.

 

I'll amend my previous comment and agree that what a player finds easiest may always not be best. However, it is still true that what seems to work well for one will not work for another, as we have seen in the alternative suggestions for the G,D,G, sequence.

 

Best wishes

 

John Wild

Whilst I see Danny's point, I think that it could well be a case of "horses for courses".

 

Any player, or potential player of the English system, who has aspirations to play at an "advanced" level should obviously pay good attention to Danny's advice (and listen to/watch his various recordings).

 

However, many potential players will not have either the required level of ability, or commitment, to become an "advanced" player on the English system. For these players, an "easier", or "more natural" way of fingering could be quite adequate.

 

But once a simple fingering is learnt, and becomes second nature; to un-learn it, and learn a more difficult fingering, could cause difficulties.

 

Regards,

Peter.

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