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Concertinas And Effects Boxes


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I suppose this post could be subtitled "the luddite's response to MIDI" :)

 

Reading the thread about MIDI concertinas has brought something to mind that I've been thinking about doing for a while but haven't got round to, and that's real-time alteration of amplified concertina sound using guitar effects boxes/pedals.

 

At Witney this year, Harry Scurfield was talking about connecting one of his Dippers up to a chorus pedal, which I believe he does with some of his band Bayou Gumbo's songs.

 

Has anyone else tried anything like this? I'm intrigued to see what the effects of, say, heavy distortion or wah-wah would be given the richness of the harmonic spectrum the reeds produce.

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I suppose this post could be subtitled "the luddite's response to MIDI" :)

 

Reading the thread about MIDI concertinas has brought something to mind that I've been thinking about doing for a while but haven't got round to, and that's real-time alteration of amplified concertina sound using guitar effects boxes/pedals.

 

At Witney this year, Harry Scurfield was talking about connecting one of his Dippers up to a chorus pedal, which I believe he does with some of his band Bayou Gumbo's songs.

 

Has anyone else tried anything like this? I'm intrigued to see what the effects of, say, heavy distortion or wah-wah would be given the richness of the harmonic spectrum the reeds produce.

Hi Stuart,

Many years ago, when I was playing in a Folk-Rock band :blink: I tried using a chorus and a phase 'pedal' with my accodion without success! <_< I believe that was because of the mussette tuning interfered with the phasing. Therefore, I would think that because the concertina has a 'cleaner' sound, it might work quite well.

When I get a mo, I'll rake out my old Roland Chorus pedal, and give it a go!

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My concertinas use a Microvox system for pick up.

I use a chorus pedal and a digital delay pedal for effects and a graphic equaliser pedal to help reduce feedback problems.

If you play about with these you can make your cancertina sound like a melodeon, so be warned :ph34r: .

However, you can make an acceptable folk-rock sound with a lower value instrument by use of effects.

 

My wife uses an octave pedal on her English, but mainly as a volume control device. The octave pedal is easily confused and cannot cope with polyphonic input. It can even get confused with single notes that have a large harmonics component.

 

Take a concertina and a pick up along to a music shop and try some out.

 

Robin Madge

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Hmm, you see, I'd be looking at ways of generating controlled feedback - or an equivalent kind of sound - rather than reducing it! B) You can probably tell, a folk-rock sound isn't what I'm after in this instance :)

 

I already have a reasonable handful of effects units for use with my electric guitars, so I'm familiar with how they work and the range of horrible noises that can be elicited from six strings. My curiosity is what kind of horrible noises I can make with a concertina ;)

 

Interesting, though, that the octave pedal gets confused by harmonics; I was recently thinking about acquiring one of these for use with my bass guitar, and have just been wondering about using it to pitch-shift my Maccann, but if they confuse easily, then that might not be such a great idea - and the polyphonic octave pedals cost far more than I want to pay for one.

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Interesting, though, that the octave pedal gets confused by harmonics; I was recently thinking about acquiring one of these for use with my bass guitar, and have just been wondering about using it to pitch-shift my Maccann, but if they confuse easily, then that might not be such a great idea - and the polyphonic octave pedals cost far more than I want to pay for one.

Hi Stuart,

 

Is this to drop the pitch on your Maccann, to avoid the need for a larger one with those long bass reeds, or do you have a more subtle use in mind?

 

Regards,

Peter.

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I already have a reasonable handful of effects units for use with my electric guitars, so I'm familiar with how they work and the range of horrible noises that can be elicited from six strings. My curiosity is what kind of horrible noises I can make with a concertina ;)

Trying to force down house prices in your neighbourhood, by making the neighbours move out? :D

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I have never seen equipment like that used with a concertina, but Gideon Freudmann gets interesting effects using stuff like that with his cello, usually using a loop function to lay down a chord pattern and then improvise over it in layers (all in real time on stage). The pictures on his web site show his modern electronic cello, but when I first heard him (15+ years ago) he did the same thing with his natural cello.

 

John McCutcheon applies an octave shift to the bottom two strings of his fiddle. When he plays it sounds like a string quartet.

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I already have a reasonable handful of effects units for use with my electric guitars, so I'm familiar with how they work and the range of horrible noises that can be elicited from six strings. My curiosity is what kind of horrible noises I can make with a concertina ;)

Trying to force down house prices in your neighbourhood, by making the neighbours move out? :D

 

My adjoining neighbour and I have an excellent relationship actually - he's a hammond organ player, so we comfortably make as much noise as we like without upsetting each other. :lol:

 

Is this to drop the pitch on your Maccann, to avoid the need for a larger one with those long bass reeds, or do you have a more subtle use in mind?

 

I'm not sure subtle is the right word, no ;) My Maccann goes low enough (baritone G) for my uses (maybe a bottom F would be nice, but I'm not complaining...) - so, no, it's certainly not for practical everyday purposes, or for use within the bounds of my more usual folky repertoire... no, really it was just an idle thought that Maccann plus octave shift plus distortion might be, err, interesting... B)

Edited by stuart estell
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At a local Octoberfest recently I saw an old fellow put a midi pickup onto his chemnitzer and use it to fill in the horn sections with his left hand, whilst playing ordinary polka leads with the right. Only other accompaniment was his son on bass guitar. Came out great, I thought. A little tame compared to what you seem to be going for, but it sure streched my definition of "trad". :)

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I'm not sure subtle is the right word, no ;)

How did I guess that?

 

I've been playing idly with the thought of using a Digitech Vocalist on my concertina and see what it comes up with in terms of harmonies. Hasn't got beyond a thought yet, but if one ever drifts past on eBay at the right price ...

 

Chris

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I've been playing idly with the thought of using a Digitech Vocalist on my concertina and see what it comes up with in terms of harmonies. Hasn't got beyond a thought yet, but if one ever drifts past on eBay at the right price ...

 

Chris

 

 

Chris,

 

I've been wondering how you are doing with your Midi box. Do you play it often now that the novelty has worn off? Is the touch or action really similar to the real thing?

 

My thought is that I could seriously expand my practice hours with one of these and headphones.

 

Ken

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I think you might have trouble in achieving a controlled feedback sound playing live on stage. If you are going for a recorded sound you might be in more luck. I wanted a very, very large amount of echo with the delay pedal cranked up for one item, and could record it via the pedals, but it just created mayhem if I output it on the speakers.

 

Robin Madge

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I've been wondering how you are doing with your Midi box. Do you play it often now that the novelty has worn off? Is the touch or action really similar to the real thing?

Oddly enough, I've been playing it a lot recently, and in fact was playing it just about 30 seconds ago. It's enabled me to put my finger on the last little tweak that it needs before the feel is exact. The problem, such as it is, occurs when you change direction with your finger still on the button. When you're playing with welly this is spot on, but if you're playing gently this it tends to start the second note a bit early. Now I've identified it I can get back to Roy Whiteley and ask him to tweak the programming. It's really that close to the feel of an accoustic instrument.

 

Even as it stands, the time I spend playing it does count as practice because the feel is similar enough to my other concertinas to work, I don't think I can say fairer than that. Of the synths I have tried it with I can say it works really well with the Roland JV1080, which is good news because these excellent synths go for a song on eBay.

 

Chris

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Having no skill what-so-ever on my box has not stopped me from recording with it as a background drone to some music. I've found an Overdrive/Bit-crusher/modulated combination with a little vintage wah creates a tone not unlike a flaming Aboriginal didgeridoo recorded off an answering machine (which, incidently, is kinda what I was going for).

 

This same combination used on my clothes dryer yielded similar results.

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Having no skill what-so-ever on my box has not stopped me from recording with it as a background drone to some music. I've found an Overdrive/Bit-crusher/modulated combination with a little vintage wah creates a tone not unlike a flaming Aboriginal didgeridoo recorded off an answering machine (which, incidently, is kinda what I was going for).

 

This same combination used on my clothes dryer yielded similar results.

 

:lol:

 

I hope you'll share these recordings with us... :D

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