Memory

[stevejay]

Do you learn a song, perfect it, all is well.

 

You can play it perfectly 10 times in a row. After about a week or so of NOT playing the song, you have to rethink some of the phrases and fingerings, and in some cases review the music to make sure of a certain nuance or triplet. Relearning it is simple enough, but sometimes I question my own memory. I find that by making a few notes on the fingerings, I save a lot of time, but even so..

 

This happened to me on Bellharbour Reel, not a terribly hard song. After not playing it I had to relearn it, and this time added a few notes to the sheet music - In case it happens again.

 

I explained this terribly, but you know what I mean. It's about muscle and musical memory

 

Steve

[Woody]

Do you learn a song, perfect it, all is well.

 

You can play it perfectly 10 times in a row. After about a week or so of NOT playing the song, you have to rethink some of the phrases and fingerings, and in some cases review the music to make sure of a certain nuance or triplet. Relearning it is simple enough, but sometimes I question my own memory. I find that by making a few notes on the fingerings, I save a lot of time, but even so..

 

This happened to me on Bellharbour Reel, not a terribly hard song. After not playing it I had to relearn it, and this time added a few notes to the sheet music - In case it happens again.

 

I explained this terribly, but you know what I mean. It's about muscle and musical memory

 

Steve

As far as I'm aware the brain works on a "need" basis with storing and retrieving information. Language courses such as the Pimsleur or Michel Thomas ones use this process to speed language learning and retention.

 

As I understand it, when you want to learn something permanently what you need to do is go through the original learning process, then practice it again a few hours later, then return to it again the next day, then again after a couple of days etc... extending the length of time between accessing the information.

 

What this does is tells the brain's "storing mechanism" that you might need to access this info at any time, even after a break of weeks or months. The alternate process that many people use of intensive learning followed by a period of non-use is saying to the "storing mechanism" - "right! I need this information to be available right now, and maybe in the next day or two - but after this intense period I might never need this again" so the memory rapidly degrades if it's not used. To have it more permanently on tap it has to be accessed repeatedly over a period of time.

 

There's also a trick to retrieving information in that the more sensory experiences you can associate with a bit of information the easier it is to retrieve, so if you can associate a piece of music with images or smells for instance you find it is easier to remember. This is why you can get players who can play a tune perfectly, but struggle to do so without the written music in front of them, even though they don't need to read the music when they're playing. The presence of the written music is the trigger to activate the memory.

 

- W

[Tom C]

As I understand it, when you want to learn something permanently what you need to do is go through the original learning process, then practice it again a few hours later, then return to it again the next day, then again after a couple of days etc... extending the length of time between accessing the information.

I sometimes think learning a tune is like learning a car journey. I can drive 300 miles without a map on a route I'm familiar with, and during the journey I even find myself going on autopilot without really noticing where I'm going at a roundabout or junction. The whole route gets imprinted in the memory.

 

A tune gets like that. When we really know it, we don't have to think about it. But then we come to "perform" it, and the whole thing can fall apart under the pressure of playing to an audience. What actually happens of course is that a whole load of other thoughts come into our brain to interfere with the memory flow - what will they think of me? will I make a mistake? etc. Just like a car journey where an intense conversation with a passenger can cause you to miss the exit slip.

 

There was an interesting thread on here last year which I started under my previous name brightfield, about getting a tune up to performance standard. I received some great advice in response to my question and its worth looking at that to hear other views on memorising.

[stevejay]

Thanks so far!... Hope this thread contines..

 

I like the analogy of a car journey.

 

I may have to play fewer songs over a week and play them in heavy rotation. I jump around quite a bit and might play 20 "newer" songs in a single practice session. Nothing is getting nailed down to where I need it, because they have not been played enough times over a span of time.

 

Let me know how many songs you usually practice at a time

Steve

Edited November 15, 2006 by stevejay

[Woody]

I may have to play fewer songs over a week and play them in heavy rotation. I jump around quite a bit and might play 20 "newer" songs in a single practice session. Nothing is getting nailed down to where I need it, because they have not been played enough times over a span of time.

I got into doing something similar and found that after reaching a certain level I wasn't getting any better, just "treading water". I found that concentrating on really learning one or two at a time gave much better results for the effort I put in. Once you've really got it you only need to revisit them with a quick practice now and then to keep the standard up.

[Tom C]

Once you've really got it you only need to revisit them with a quick practice now and then to keep the standard up.

Agreed. The important thing is not to practice your mistakes. Its so easy to keep running into the same problems with a tune and ploughing through it. I need to pause at the problem, analyse what's gone wrong and practice just that phrase, slowly until it comes right.

[Woody]

Once you've really got it you only need to revisit them with a quick practice now and then to keep the standard up.

Agreed. The important thing is not to practice your mistakes. Its so easy to keep running into the same problems with a tune and ploughing through it. I need to pause at the problem, analyse what's gone wrong and practice just that phrase, slowly until it comes right.

Yes I find the same thing. I work on just that phrase, slowing it down to a ridiculous (?) level and then when I'm getting it right, speed up a bit. When I've got it I go back to the whole tune slowly. Of course as soon as I try the whole tune I hit the same problem again, but by repeating this process a few times I eventually get rid of the mistake and, so far, once it's cleared up never seem to encounter it again.

[Robert Booth]

Good tips, all. I often find that there is a "zone" where I'm paying just the right amount of attention to the process: fingering, bellows work, phrasing, the turn of the tune, etc. I find that I can pay not enough attention (common enough) or, perversely, too much attention, and the whole thing bogs down. I'm learning how to stay in the zone for longer and longer periods, but the "too much attention" part is my current daemon to over come. Being aware that I'm paying attention to the process puts me in the danger zone, and my house of musical cards comes tumbling down.

Anyone else experience this?

[Molly Roberts]

Quote: "too much attention" part is my current daemon to over come. Being aware that I'm paying attention to the process puts me in the danger zone, and my house of musical cards comes tumbling down.

 

Robert,

 

I had some fun the other day with that zone you mention. I've been trying to become more aware of where my fingers rest when waiting to play a note. Bob has recently replaced the springs on my Tedrow with the lighter ones that are now standard on his new instruments. I love the resulting ease and quiet action - however, it has made for some interesting unintended effects and shown up some of my lazy habits. My challenge is to position my fingers so that they are ready to play, but neither pressing a button inadvertantly nor slapping down on it with more than the necessary force. That led me to try to look at - see - what I was doing.

 

My experience in the zone resulted from trying to watch my fingers while I played. I could do it for a few seconds - as though I were watching someone else's fingers, but very soon my mind interrupted the automatic process and I'd have to start again to play without watching - then take another peek . . . .

Arrgh!

 

All in all this modification has been a pleasure and has allowed me to play faster - and the next challenge is whether - and where - to brace a finger when playing fast push and draw notes with the other hand . . . but that is a subject for another thread.

 

Cheers,

Molly