Who Knows Anything About This Maker?

[briankc]

I am relatively new to playing the Anglo, having played a Bastari @ 20 years ago and am now in the market for a more serious , better quality instrument . I reccently heard about Jones and that if one has been reworked, it could be a good value.

Any thuoughts? If so , what makes could one compare it to , assuming the makers compared have comparable models? Model for model, Jones vs. Lachenal?

 

I play Irish trad.

 

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Brian

[Chris Timson]

Jones' vary a great deal, I would say. I have a Jones wooden-ended 26 button G/D that is only a little inferior to the Jeffries 26-button that I used to own. It's a nice little instrument. But I have also met Jones anglos that I wouldn't offer to a bodhran player. Caveat emptor!

 

Chris

[Janis]

I have a 26-button wooden-ended Jones with a gorgeous sound, but it was completely overhauled and tuned via Paul Groff, so I don't know how much to attribute to Jones and how much to Paul. This is especially true since the 20-button Lachenal I previously owned, also bought from Paul, also sounded lovely.

 

With older instruments, I suspect, how well the rehab and tuning were done are as important as the maker.

[rmerris]

As already indicated, the quality of Jones concertinas (as with other makes) varies from instrument to instrument. By the time the Jones company folded in 1909 (George had retired in 1899), thousands in different price ranges had been produced. Two factors to consider:

 

(1) Jones always, or almost always, used riveted action, whereas Lachenal used the pivot system. I have seen an illustration of a late Jones (circa 1905) with pivot action, but never an actual Jones instrument with that action. (The illustratar may have been using both Jones and Lachenal instruments as models for the drawing and thereby confused the features.)

(2) Jones sold (probably moreso than Lachenal) to the Salvation Army (SA) and therefore had to meet the quality standards imposed by Mr. Booth and/or his son. (Jones supposedly made sales visits to Booth at the SA--legend has it, deck out in his own SA-style coat. SA-model Jones may have been some of the best produced, but even those probably varied between "student models" and better instruments.) A little more on Jones and his instruments is found in a couple places in my article, "Instruction Manuals for English, Anglo, ..." at www.maccann-duet.com.

(3) I have a 26-key Jones in Bb/F and a 30-key in C/G. Nothing fancy but real "comfortable" little instruments.

(4) Jone made some, but relatively few, English-system instruments or metal-end Anglos, and did not like duets (but did make a "piano" model tha was somewhat duet-like.

[Chris Timson]

(2) Jones sold (probably moreso than Lachenal) to the Salvation Army (SA)

My Jones has the letters SA worked into the fretwork, which is a feature I greatly value as an indicator of the history of the instrument.

 

Chris

[goran rahm]

I am curious to hear from those of you who have Jones' Anglos if any of these have got his special broader reeds?

The only Anglo of his I've had did not, but two Englishes both have these reeds which also are fairly 'soft'. The tone is quite pleasant if 'mellow tone' is fancied.

 

Goran Rahm

[Paul Groff]

Hello

 

I like Jones instruments if they are in good condition or very well-rebuilt. Most you see these days are not and have given the maker a mixed reputation among modern players. In general (with exceptions of course) the anglos have larger dimensions and buttons than most Lachenals, etc., and hence can remind you of the German instruments from which the English tradition of the "anglo" (anglo-german or anglo-chromatic) departed. These proportions can make some of them seem a little clunky or slow, especially in comparison with the better models of Lachenal, Crabb, Jeffries, Wheatstone, etc., but again there are exceptions. As was noted, the actions are riveted in the ones I have seen, which gives the potential for smooth and fast playing. Without exception, all that I have seen in good condition have had superlative warm, musical tone.

 

Goran, I have seen quite a few with the broad reeds and also some with medium and narrow reeds. The broad reeded ones are exceptionally mellow in tone, but not necessarily "soft" in volume (I'm not sure if that is what you meant); in fact they can be extremely loud, but due to their warmth the sound is not piercing or painfully harsh. A lot of singers like these, but they also work for medium-tempo dance music if you can give them enough pressure to get them to attack promptly. The date for Jones' introduction of the broad reeds is given as 1865 or later in various printed sources, but I have sold a very original and evidently very early Jones 26 key with a Lucas Place label and the number 2259 that has them. Possibly they were used by him before they were patented. There is a lot of research potential here for the history buffs, even though much documentation has already been provided by Jones himself, his grandson the late Frank Butler, Joel Cowan, and others. In addition to Randy's article, Issue #20 of Concertina & Squeezebox, Don Nichols' website, and the Horniman Museum would be good places to start.

 

Janis, thanks for your comments. To give credit where it is due, I only selected the instrument, made some restoration decisions, did minor adjustments to the action, retuned it, and served as your retailer. The tone, basic design, and appearance of the instrument reflect Jones' craftsmanship. I purchased it on ebay recognizing that it was not restored to its potential. Much of its playability is due to the Dippers, who at my request were kind enough to make a lovely bellows with an extra fold (needed by many of these Jones anglos if they are to be used as student or intermediate instruments - for which they are great!) and do some action work. So your concertina, like so many played today, is the result of an international collaboration of many concertina people. I agree with you, however, that it can be hard to tell what antique concertinas were like when new -- their history since then, and especially the way any repairs or restoration has been done, can have a great effect on how we perceive them today.

 

Paul

[Dave Prebble]

Hi to All,

 

There is and excellent article about George Jones much of which comes straight from his memoirs.

 

"Recollections of the English Concertina Trade by George Jones, with comments by Frank E. Butler and Neil Wayne".

 

This can be found at DoN Nichols web site:-

 

http://www.d-and-d.com/contributions/tinas-jones2.html

 

In this article Jones says :-

 

"In 1870 I manufactured the first Broad Steel reeds, later

advertised with the slogan "Never wear out. Never go out of tune". It was

necessary to enlarge the 48 keyed English to take them, and the result was the

most powerful instrument made."

 

I have one of these larger English concertinas, if memory serves 6 3/4" Across Flats. As Jones certainly claimed and Paul suggests, this a very loud instrument. The volume is not as is so often the case, associated with a 'hard tone'. The overall sound is mellow and well rounded. The instrument has a good quality rivetted action and appears well made throughout. It came with badly damaged ends and virtually no fretwork left and now sports a pair of finely fretted solid amboyna ends. It really does deserves to look as well as it plays.

 

The only Jones Anglo I have had was a 30 key Rosewood ended Anglo though I cannot recall whether it had broad reeds or not. It was certainly the equal in all ways to the Lachenal Rosewood ended model.

 

Regards Dave

[Paul Groff]

Dave,

 

Thanks for a very informative and interesting posting. Re: the date of introduction of the broad steel reeds, I have seen the quote you mention, and others that date the introduction to later or earlier.* I find it interesting that some of the earliest surviving numbered Jones instruments I have seen have the broad reeds (e. g., 2259, 7102, 10431 that have gone through my shop) and when I have seen narrower reeds (including some I mentioned in another post with very hard steel and loud and responsive voicing) they have been in instruments with much higher numbers. This is why I wonder if the broad reeds might have actually been used before they were patented or advertised; again this is a question, not a conclusion! I have never looked closely at a Jones english - are the button size and spacing similar to Wheatstone et al.?

 

Paul

 

*"In 1855 he made the first portable harmonium...Ten years later, our friend enlarged the english concertina, thus admitting the use of broader steel reeds. About this time he designed and made broad steel 'Anglos' for the Salvation Army." (also from Don's website, "Retirement of Mr. Jones / from Musical Opinion and music trade Review, 1st September 1899).

[Dave Prebble]

Hi Paul.

 

The buttons on my Jones English are 5mm Nickel silver tips on wood stems

 

Spacing is 1/2" between rows and 13/32" between centres along the rows ..... very slightly greater I think in both respects than Wheatstone of Lachenal 'standards'.

 

One possibility for the 'earlier date' broad reeds might be that some instruments made their way back to the shop in later years for re-furbishing and resale and were re-reeded then, though it could just as easily be an idea he experimented with in early days and then shelved for some years, Who can tell?

 

It would be interesting to compare reed shoe widths to see if this were a possibility.

 

Regards

 

Dave

[Paul Groff]

Dave,

 

Many thanks for your observations. Re: the larger buttons and spacing (more prominent on the anglos, but apparently evident also in your english), maybe Jones had large fingertips or was an early ergonomist?

 

I too have wondered if early Jones instruments might have been later upgraded at the factory to wide reeds. Jones #2259 (2, Lucas Place label, probably after the 1861 fire and certainly before 1874 when the premises were renumbered as Commercial Row) looked like a Victorian time capsule when I first opened it. Next time I see its current owner I will ask for another look inside. Curiously, this instrument (with ?Thuja veneer, bone buttons, bellows of very early thin-card type with double-dolphin gold tooling) is remarkably similar in proportions and veneering to a much higher-numbered instrument (with different tooling pattern and metal buttons) I once saw at the Dippers. Comparing the woodwork alone (which is remarkable in both cases and unlike the typical Jones), they could have been twins. So another speculative possibility is that the serial numbers were not sequential, as has long been assumed. It is pretty clear now that most concertina makers did not just start with 1 and number each instrument produced in order. But in the case of Jones (as with Wheatstone) serial numbers have long been assumed to be sequential -- keeping an open mind, perhaps this view should be re-examined to evaluate evidence for and against it.

 

Or possibly all the Jones I have seen, going back to 2259, are later than 1865 / 1870.

 

Jim Lucas will be absolutely correct when he asks us to move this discussion to "History." But for a last comment (from me) about playability and quality, I do agree with you that Jones' instruments can be just as good (if not better) than Lachenals. But I have a couple for sale and did not want to seem to be overpraising them.

 

Paul

[Dave Prebble]

Hi Paul,

 

You could well be right about non-sequential numbering in general and I too have noticed anomalies where Jones Boxes are concerned. There is so little information and hard data available that we do have to rely on extrapolation, assumption and pure guesswork. Results are only as good as the data.

 

Back to the original enquiry

I would say certainly do not dismiss Jones simply because he was one of the smaller makers. He certainly made some fine concertinas. Of great importance however is what has happened to them since they left his hands.

You really must 'try before you buy' and remember to choose with you ears and your fingers and not get too bogged down by Famous (or otherwise) names or how flashy an instrument looks.

Regards

Dave

[goran rahm]

Dave quoted the Frank Butler article:

In this article Jones says :-

"In 1870 I manufactured the first Broad Steel reeds, later

advertised with the slogan "Never wear out. Never go out of tune". It was

necessary to enlarge the 48 keyed English to take them, and the result was the

most powerful instrument made."

 

Goran: I wonder if the above is not merely a promoting slogan. Are there any objective signs that these instruments are particularly "powerful"?? The Jones instruments I've come across have been characterized most of all by the mentioned 'mellowness' of tone. I also called them 'soft' since contrary to the above I got the impression of 'not very powerful'. Very "pleasant" tone though in my taste. The 56 key extended (up and down) metalended treble English I've got

has a remarkably mellow tone for being metalended..that is striking. It is not 'powerful' and the reed metal is not very 'hard' ( easy to file). It is a special order instrument though so no general conclusions can be made.

BTW...the measures of the keyboard are exactly the standard ones.

(Wheatstone/Lachenal )

 

When I discussed it with Frank Butler he said many times that George Jones was generally very inventive in his enterprise and came up with many novelties, particularly acoustical ones, despite maybe they did not become standard or ever sold some of them. As said the business included harmoniums.

George Jones claimed being the first one having introduced the 'Anglo' (third row) modification of the 'German' style concertina. Anyone having good information on this?

 

Goran Rahm

[rmerris]

For the George Jones enthusiast:

 

1. The version of Jones' article, "Recollections ..." in #14 (Spring 1985) of Concertina Magazine (1980s; Richard Eavns, ed.), pp. 4-7, has some nice added illustrations, including of the Jones' folding harmonium and his melodeon and the diamond-shaped trade-mark insignia ("JG overlaid, Defiance, Screwed Notes, London Make") and showing "Class A", along with an editorial comment that "The bottom angle on the right side of each instrument in this Class bears a Stamp indicating whether Steel or Metal Reeds."

 

2. Someplace (I think in another issue of Concertina Magazine, but I cannot locate it off-hand) is an photo (circa 1900-1905) of George Jones, Jr. next to a Jones Anglo that is maybe 30-36 inches across that end. Talk about an unusual instrument!

[rmerris]

I misspelled Richard Evans name, in the preceding posting. My apologies, Richard.

[Helen]

Thanks guys for veering off into history. You got me interested and now I will pay more attention to that part of the forum.

 

I know some people don't like it when threads veer off into other forums, but at least for me, I get interested and then go check them out.

 

So thanks.

 

Helen

[briankc]

Thanks to all who took the time to answer my question . The info has been helpful.

Brian

[Richard Evans]

Dear Randy,

Apologies accepted for mispelling Evans. Most people seem to spell it 'Evens'; as it is probably the second most used surname in Wales I wonder why.

On the subject of Jones concertinas. Did you know that Frank Butler was George Jones's grandson? I met Frank in the 1970's and the concertina disease had certainly passed on! I heard Frank play the "Flight of the Bumblebee" on an English and although it was some time ago it is not something that anyone would forget!

Frank was from the "old School" of concertinists (note that title). He was a real musician and could play anything that was written down. He was also a real gentleman and a concertina enthusiast who tried to instill the love of the instrument into the receptive but muddled minds of the concertina revivalists. Thirty years on I realise what a valuable man he was!

Now the Jones concertinas. Well Jones did not just make concertinas he made (or caused to be made) many musical instruments. I know his firm made English reed organs (different to American Harmoniums) and he also imported and sold stringed instruments. Somewhere in my enormous pile of stuff I have a cattle dog of the firm. (sorry Australian joke).

As for comments on Jones instruments. Well I have had a few turn up over the years and I must say that the "Broad Steel Reeds" seem more of an advertising gimmick than a useful addition. The instruments that I have worked on (all Anglos) have shown no startling improvement on the Lachenal models. Yes they do seem mellow. As for holding their tune, well a properly tuned Lachenal seems to last a considerable time and to compare the Jones to it might need scientific comparison

that was lacking when Jones made their claim!

Randy you are right. A photo of a Jones with the broad reeds is in one of the Concertina Magazines. Strange how I remember sending two sets of Mags to the USA and yet everyone seems to be able to access them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yours Concerternally, Richard Evans