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Newbie With Big Hands


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Greetings to all here, and please forgive me if you are already tired of this question:

 

I've decided to take the plunge. I play quite a few instruments and have some music degrees. I've been an Irish fiddler for many years. I'd like to play some sessions with the Anglo concertina. Problem: I have very big hands, long and wide but not thick. Over the years I have held a few anglos that were comfortable and some that were just too cramped to play. I recall that some very inexpensive 20 button models in Clare were very roomy.

 

Are there any brands that would be easier for me to play on? Price is not going to stop me (this time).

 

Any other advice for a pre-beginner is welcomed!

Edited by sidesqueeze
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Hello,

 

I know that Bob Tedrow makes a variety of sizes. He made a concertina for me earlier this year.

 

 

Earl Rogers.

 

 

Greetings to all here, and please forgive me if you are already tired or this question:

 

I've decided to take the plunge. I play quite a few instruments and have some music degrees. I've been an Irish fiddler for many years. I'd like to play some sessions with the Anglo concertina. Problem: I have very big hands, long and wide but not thick. Over the years I have held a few anglos that were comfortable and some that were just too cramped to play. I recall that some very inexpensive 20 button models in Clare were very roomy.

 

Are there any brands that would be easier for me to play on? Price is not going to stop me (this time).

 

Any other advice for a pre-beginner is welcomed!

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Hello,

 

I know that Bob Tedrow makes a variety of sizes. He made a concertina for me earlier this year.

 

 

Earl Rogers.

 

 

Greetings to all here, and please forgive me if you are already tired or this question:

 

I've decided to take the plunge. I play quite a few instruments and have some music degrees. I've been an Irish fiddler for many years. I'd like to play some sessions with the Anglo concertina. Problem: I have very big hands, long and wide but not thick. Over the years I have held a few anglos that were comfortable and some that were just too cramped to play. I recall that some very inexpensive 20 button models in Clare were very roomy.

 

Are there any brands that would be easier for me to play on? Price is not going to stop me (this time).

 

Any other advice for a pre-beginner is welcomed!

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I'd like to play some sessions with the Anglo concertina. Problem: I have very big hands, long and wide but not thick. Over the years I have held a few anglos that were comfortable and some that were just too cramped to play.

Hi; welcome to the Forum.

 

A major factor could be the tension of the hand-straps; if they are too tight, the hands will feel cramped. If you have played instruments owned by people with smaller hands, then their set-up is probably done to optimise the playing position for hands of their size, not larger.

 

Some players, like John Kirkpatrick, have large hands, so don't despair. You might only need longer hand-straps.

 

Regards,

Peter.

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Good morning Sidesqueeze,

 

Like you, I have large hands (don't read that as long fingers -- just hefty ones with large palms). I find Wheatstones rather difficult to negotiate -- especially the inside row. Lachenals are normally less troublesome. I find the 28 and 30 button Jeffries ideal and ditto for the early Crabbs. 38 button instruments get a bit too crowded regardless of the brand.

 

The length and height of the palmrest may help alleviate hand problems. Shorter (in height) palmrests make reaching the inside row more difficult while taller palmrests work better. That was part of Dipper's solution for me as well as moving the buttons a bit further out. The Dipper palmrest is about 1 inch tall while the old Crabb and Jeffries palmrests are barely more than 1/2 inch tall -- and relatively short in length. If the palmrest is too short in length, your hand will be very uncomfortably pinched and your access to the lower buttons on each side will be restricted.

 

So for the short-term, my recommendations to you would be to look for a Lachenal or a Crabb (or Jeffries if pocketbook & circumstances suit). While some may consider this sacrilege, even these instruments may fit you better if you replace their palmrests with ones made to fit you (longer & taller). If you do, keep the original ones so that they can be restored to the instrument whenever necessary. Unfortunately, moving the palmrest back away from the buttons to give you more room to access the inside row, can throw the instrument out of balance -- causing the ends and bellows to tip as you draw and press rather than remaining parallel as you play the instrument.

 

Longer-term, the custom builders (Suttner, Dipper, and Carroll for sure cause I have experience with each) are willing to adjust their instruments to suit you. Usually this limited to adjustments to the palmrest but as I mentioned earlier, Dipper even moved the button layout out to keep the ends in balance. I sent Dipper a tracing of my hands, and the instrument he sent me fit perfectly with no adjustments required -- even the strap was perfect. Unfortunately there's that interminable wait no matter which builder you choose. One pleasant exception may be Dana Johnson's Kensington Concertinas. His wait is not near as long and his palmrest is taller and unique in shape and may fit you well. He shares the trait of large hands himself and so is sensitive to the issue. I highly recommend him.

 

Best of luck, and fire away with any additional questions.

 

Ross Schlabach

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Ross covered the issue well. but I've noticed other issues coming up that made me want to chime in here. I noticed a lot of players with long fingers often back their hands out and leave the straps running across their knuckles in order to make the inner rows easier to reach. This is restrictive, especially if you have your straps holding you tight to the hand rest, but it also causes a lot of sore knuckles that can become chronic after a while. ( see other threads in ergonomics ) Also, there is a nerve pressure point just behind the index finger knuckle towards the side, and if your hand rest is too short in length, the strap will wrap around and over this point and exert a fair amount of pressure that will quickly cause pain and discomfort.

 

As a result of this, I've been making two lengths of hand rests for a long time to accomodate different palm widths, and for those with longer fingers suggesting they adopt the arched palm loose strap style of playing ( I use myself ) which is effective but allows the fingers to swing back to the inner rows more easily. The two sizes didn't really cover all situations though, so I decided a few weeks ago to offer extra tall hand rests as well in both lengths. The old ones were 7/8 inch at the highest point. ( they are not straight across, but have curved tops ) and the extra tall ones are 1 inch high. Hopefully this will assist both large handed long fingered people like myself and narrow handed long fingered people ( like my wife ). The short standard height rest I make is essentially the equivalent of what is found on the traditional concertinas, though a little taller perhaps.

 

I'm not intending to plug my instruments here, but rather am suggesting that other makers might be persuaded to offer more than one hand rest size for the benefit of those who don't have medium to small hands. the challenge is making them look like they belong on the instrument. Sometimes I think a lot of instruments were designed for earlier protien starved cultures. Making a bigger box isn' a good solution though, since playing force goes up quickly with size.

Dana

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Sidesqueeze: Peter and Ross have given you excellent suggestions. I have long fingers but not a thick hand. On a piano I can easily span a space of ten notes in a scale (e.g., middle C to high E) with with my left hand. I initially found the inside row to be tight and uncomfortable on many instruments. Perhaps it arose from my experience in palying the piano, but I found that my fingers were moving inward when striking the buttons. This made me miss the buttons on the inside row. As Peter recommended, loosening the straps a bit was a major help. It gave my hand the ability to place the fingers more directly over the inside row. I actually keep the left hand strap one hole looser than the right hand strap because the left hand is so active in Irish Trad. It took a lot of experimentation but it makes a difference.

 

The height of the hand rails, and the space from the hand rails as mentioned by Ross are also critical. I find that my hand fits well on a standard Suttner 30b where the inside row is slightly farther away from the hand rail than on some instruments, and I find that the raised (and padded) hand rail on a Wakker is very comfortable. I find that the ability to arch my hand is extremely helpful, and this something that the Wakker encourages. (I know that some excellent players are strong advocates of keeping the fingers and wrist straight, and it may work for them, but I tried it and it doesn't work for me.) So, don't be afraid to experiment, and I think that you can eventually find comfort with most concertinas.

 

One of the revered concertina players from County Clare is Chris Droney who is a bit over 80. He has huge farmer's hands and fingers, yet he plays his wheatstone primarily on the inside row. I also compared hands with Noel Hill, another revered player, and his hands are roughly equivalent to mine. He also plays Wheatstones. In the end, however, I think that Ross's idea of a custom made concertina is good if you tolerate the wait. In the meantime, there are discussions in this site about raising the hand rails with cushions. That is a good immedate idea to try along with the looser straps.

 

I wrote the above before seeing Dana's post, and am editing to reflect his post. I know Dana from Noel Hill classes, and he definitely has large hands, and is a very thoughtful person. His ideas make sense to me, and are consistent with my experience. One more note on this, I adjust the hand straps so that that are not directly above the hand rails but a little behind them. This keeps the straps from riding on the knuckles.

 

Alan

Edited by Alan Miller
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Whilst not being an anglo player or concertina maker, I did wonder how practical it would be to make an adjustable palm? rest. May be something along the lines of the adjustable bridge often seen on guitars/mandolines whereby the height can be adjusted by a couple of threaded knurled 'wheels' which spread the bridge apart.

I tend, these days, to say if I think something may work just in case it does. I owe this to my father who scorned the idea of changing gear on a push bike using a twist grip instead of a lever 47 years ago -never work he said. I could have been rich and the owner of an Aeola now :angry:

chris

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Many thanks to Earl, Peter, Ross, Dana, and Chris (so far) for these excellent words of advice. I'll be looking for taller and maybe longer palm rests, and I'll compare the distances from palm rests to buttons between various instruments. I will also look for previous posts about changing the height of the rails or rests (any help with terminology is also appreciated).

 

This is a great board!

 

Ken

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Both Bob Tedrow and Frank Edgley have been quite willing to make custom height palm/hand rails for the instruments I've ordered from them, I only had to ask and specify what height I'd like. In that regard I've found I like 7/8" to 1" for comfortable playing positions.

 

While I've not explored the matter with either, I suspect they could also produce (for a price) custom height pieces for instruments made by others. I don't know if they would be willing to take on the work, but if I found a concertina I'd like to own that didn't have a comfortable rise for the palm I'd not pass on it if I could get someone to make new rails sized to my specifications. Of course I'd not discard the original pieces; rather they'd be saved and could be easily reinstalled should a subsequent owner wish to use them again.

Edited by Bruce McCaskey
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One description of raising handles is here. Very cheap and easy! Most of my concertinas still have these foam spacers - The arched-hand-loose-strap hand position doesn't work for me because of other orthopedic issues/weaknesses. (I owe Paul Groff a reply to his question about this in another, dormant thread.) To stay out of trouble I have to use straps more snug and tall handles. My fingers are a bit on the short side of average for a male.

 

Metal-ended Stagi W15 models are notorious for buttons too close to the handles, but it doesn't sound like you'll be forced into using one of these anyway.

 

On my order from a reknowned maker east of the Atlantic I specified taller handles. Unfortunately, that maker somehow forgot about it over those many years, and that finallly-delivered instrument has foam spacers over short handles now! Dana and I are experimenting with taller handles (I owe him thanks for that) on my Kensington, and we are close to a design that works for me (and may well be useless for anyone else, clearly I am in a small minority on all this). The lesson is don't be shy about alterations.

 

another Ken

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Whilst not being an anglo player or concertina maker, I did wonder how practical it would be to make an adjustable palm? rest. May be something along the lines of the adjustable bridge often seen on guitars/mandolines whereby the height can be adjusted by a couple of threaded knurled 'wheels' which spread the bridge apart.

I tend, these days, to say if I think something may work just in case it does. I owe this to my father who scorned the idea of changing gear on a push bike using a twist grip instead of a lever 47 years ago -never work he said. I could have been rich and the owner of an Aeola now :angry:

chris

 

i believe its been done. but by whom... i dont recall. i believe it was a maker in the u.s.? i dont recall... when i'll have time i'll email around, but someone was telling me about it just a few weeks ago. there was no mention of mechanism, but i'm pretty sure someone, somewhere, is making adjustable handrests.

Edited by david_boveri
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One description of raising handles is here. Very cheap and easy! Most of my concertinas still have these foam spacers - The arched-hand-loose-strap hand position doesn't work for me because of other orthopedic issues/weaknesses.

Furthermore it looks quite neat, unlike a lot of ergonomic adjustments that people make to concertinas. It occurs to me that on many older concertinas the palmrests are screwed rather than glued in place. It should be possible to replace these with a new higher palm rest, but still keeping the old one so you can return the instrument to its former shape if you sell it.

 

Chris

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  • 4 weeks later...
My first concertina has arrived, a Lachenal anglo 32 button c/g. Sure enough, my hands are too big for the straps. I'll use some spacers to raise the hand rests, but I'm going to need longer straps.

 

Can anyone suggest a source?

 

 

If you were around here, I would send you out to the harness shop and tell you to ask the little Amish women who runs it to make some straps for you. Maybe you could find a leather worker out there?

 

Alan

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My first concertina has arrived, a Lachenal anglo 32 button c/g. Sure enough, my hands are too big for the straps. I'll use some spacers to raise the hand rests, but I'm going to need longer straps.

 

Can anyone suggest a source?

 

Dave Leese of Concertina Spares is one option. Dave's handstraps are pretty long. I would expect that the Button Box also has them.

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My first concertina has arrived, a Lachenal anglo 32 button c/g. Sure enough, my hands are too big for the straps. I'll use some spacers to raise the hand rests, but I'm going to need longer straps.

 

Can anyone suggest a source?

 

Dave Leese of Concertina Spares is one option. Dave's handstraps are pretty long. I would expect that the Button Box also has them.

A temporary fix while waiting for longer straps is to extend the strap with a loop of string. Make a loop by tieing a bit of string through the hole in the strap that the strap adjuster screw would go through - this then hooks over the adjuster screw making a temporary extension. A bit of trial and error should get the correct loop size.

 

- W

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