Help! Rolls And Crans Again.

[Alan Caffrey]

I recently got back from the Catskills Irish Arts week - what a fantastic festival! To sit at the elbow of Chris Droney and hear the man play 'the flowing tide' - wonderful!

I did a class with Michael O'Raghalleigh, very enjoyable, laidback and low stress, the way I like 'em. Took lots of notes and taped the stuff but of course my scraps of paper puzzle me now. Here is part of a list Michael gave of long and short crans and some rolls:

 

crans rolls

 

ddbac cgcc

eece dadd

f#dbf# egee

gecg(g) f#af#f#

adba gcgg

 

But which notes are where, for instance the first roll: low c? high c? two c's tapped together? And where to use them? Could anyone give me examples where these might fit into common tunes? I live in the middle of Arkansas so won't see another concertina player until next July, so I can only count on you folk for help; thanks in advance,

 

Alan.

[Alan Caffrey]

Oops! that didn't come out with as much space between the crans and rolls as I intended but you can still make it out: crans on the left, rolls on the right with just one space between them.

Alan.

[Ritchie_Kay]

Hi Alan,

 

I had a class with Michael O'Raghallaigh too....

 

The first crann is low D high d b a and back to low D - in abc notation DdbAD

The first roll looks like a roll on low C - i.e. one C a cut G onto C and another C - CGCC and so on....

[Animaterra]

Er... what's a cran?

[david_boveri]

Er... what's a cran?

 

a crann is a rhythmic component of irish music. i know that means nothing, but its derivitive of pipe playing.

 

my understanding pipers originally would cut a note (use the note above it) or tap a note (the note below) really quickly (i.e. a grace not) to separate notes from eachother because the only other option is staccato which means closing all your fingers between every note. this grew into cranns and rolls, which are combinations of cuts and taps. the rhythmic affect is more important than the melodic affect.

 

fiddle players and flute players, usually compose their rolls of five notes. the base note, the one above, the base note, and then the one below. an example on f sharp: FGFEF. the f would be the only note discernable, whereas the g and e would sound like blips.

 

a crann differs from a roll, in that it technically consists of only the notes above it, i.e. cuts. one of the traditional flute / pipers cranns is: DGDFDAD . the first D is longer than the rest. it takes up more space (at least in theory) than a roll does, because it has 2 extra notes.

 

on the concertina the definitions blur. some people call a note double with a gracenote between (a gracenote that does not fall on a beat) a roll, and everything else cranns. the large groupings alan posted above are called cranns because for the most part all of the notes are played above the note ornamented, and has traditionally been so. however, there are times when cranns venture below the main note, confusing the definition.

[JimLucas]

Er... what's a cran?

In this forum the answers to that question and its companion, "What's a roll?" are tricky, as you'll learn if you look through previous discussions of the subject.

 

The problem here is that "rolls" and "crans" as played on non-squeezeboxes (pipes, fiddles, flutes, whistles, and I presume also guitars, banjos, etc.) are very specific ornaments with very specific structures, but Irish anglo players and button-box players use those terms for various multi-note "flutterings" of quite different structure. David Boveri has indicated that difference in his descriptions.

 

To an inexperienced or uncritical ear those squeezers' "rolls" and "crans" may sound similar to or even "the same as" what the pipes and fiddles are doing, but they're not. An experienced listener can easily tell the difference. On the other hand (s)he usually won't care. The different types of "rolls" and "crans" serve similar ornamental purposes, and usually even sound OK when played at the same time.

 

I know about fiddle-pipe-flute rolls and crans. I won't try to tell you about anglo concertina "rolls" and "crans", because I don't have enough experience with them. I don't even know whether they're standardized, i.e., played the same or nearly the same by most Irish concertina players. My impression is that there's quite a bit of individual variation.

 

One place where a set of anglo-definition rolls and crans is written out, though, is Frank Edgley's tutor book. If you don't have it, you should consider getting it.

 

a crann differs from a roll, in that it technically consists of only the notes above it, i.e. cuts. one of the traditional flute / pipers cranns is: DGDFDAD . the first D is longer than the rest. it takes up more space (at least in theory) than a roll does, because it has 2 extra notes.

A quibble: No, a standard cran (pipe-fiddle definition) doesn't take up more space/time than a roll, not even in theory. Instead, it divides the same space/time into more and smaller pieces.

 

however, there are times when cranns venture below the main note, confusing the definition.

Here David is talking about anglo concertina "crans". I do sometimes play an ornament on the whistle which has two "blips" above the main note and one below, but I've never noticed anyone else do that, much less call it a "cran".

 

You may have noticed that I keep saying "anglo". That's because on the English I model my rolls and crans on what fiddlers and whistler players do, not on what anglo players are doing.

[Alan Miller]

Hi Alan: This is the other Alan from Micheal's class. I wrote down his list of rolls and cranns, and also recorded his comments. In fact, I am just now starting to use a crann (Kid on the Mountain on the E). As you say, he was a great teacher and laid back. He permitted lots of flexibility as best evidenced by his encouragement of your Chris Droney style. In any event, as you note most of his cranns involved playing the note, followed by playing the top two buttons (descending in pitch) in the C row on the right hand, then the note--always in the same direction. There were a few options such as including the top G or A on rolls that start with the F#, G or A. Note that he gave us cranns in all of the notes in the G scale, and not for an F natural or a C#. I suspect that these just are notes that you would normally ornament in Irish Trad.

 

For the top three cranns he did have notes above and below the note. These were:

 

c (e) d b c on the draw (the e is optional) I believe that in abc format this would be c (e) d B c

 

d e c# d on the press

 

e d eflat e on the draw

 

The last two of these require (on a Jeffries layout) the use of the first finger on the second button c# or eflat

 

He described rolls as playing the note then cutting and repeating it.

 

Frank Edgely also has a very useful list of rolls and cranns in his tutor. And from my Noel Hill workshop I know that he also has his own approach. That is one of the frustrations but also fun things about Irish Trad. There are many options. As Micheal said, when you play a "wrong" note just consider that everyone else played the wrong note and you played the right one.

 

Hope this is consistent with your notes, and is helpful. Alan

Edited August 24, 2006 by Alan Miller

[Stiamh]

I do sometimes play an ornament on the whistle which has two "blips" above the main note and one below, but I've never noticed anyone else do that, much less call it a "cran".

 

I'm pretty sure these thingies have been imported into Irish music from GHB technique - most of the people I hear doing them regularly are highland pipers. They have a name Jim - the "double-cut roll"! (Wait for more sandwich asides...)

 

Steve

[JimLucas]

I do sometimes play an ornament on the whistle which has two "blips" above the main note and one below, but I've never noticed anyone else do that, much less call it a "cran".

I'm pretty sure these thingies have been imported into Irish music from GHB technique - most of the people I hear doing them regularly are highland pipers. They have a name Jim - the "double-cut roll"! (Wait for more sandwich asides...)

Is there something similar in German music? I remember hearing about something called a "Kaiser roll".

[david_boveri]

a crann differs from a roll, in that it technically consists of only the notes above it, i.e. cuts. one of the traditional flute / pipers cranns is: DGDFDAD . the first D is longer than the rest. it takes up more space (at least in theory) than a roll does, because it has 2 extra notes.

A quibble: No, a standard cran (pipe-fiddle definition) doesn't take up more space/time than a roll, not even in theory. Instead, it divides the same space/time into more and smaller pieces.

 

i read it and then i wondered what i was thinking. it took me a while. when i was taught cranns by several different people i was taught to play them over a longer period of time, meaning 4 eighth notes / quavers instead of 3 like rolls (which would be "theory" i said). some people also play cranns accross the beat (which i never do); i play cranns in the same time frame as a roll. thanks for pointing out my slipup.