Chemnitzer Concertina Repair

[phillean]

My early concertina / chemnitzer has arrived. The body and bellows seem to be in reasonable condition. See photos below of the concertina and its parts. I aim to put lager photos on a web page. It has gangs of reeds on alloy plates (not magnetic), the reeds are rectangular, so I suppose it is an early chemnitzer because it has accordion reeds.

 

I would appreciate suggestions on how to approach a few things.

 

The problems.

1 - some of the leathers have fallen off or look quite old, I can replace those.

2 - two of the treble buttons have fallen of the wooden action - what is the best glue to use to reattach them ?

4 - a number of the tortion springs under the first row of treble keys are broken, where can I find new ones?

5 - the reeds, some have a little rust, most look ok, many of the treble reeds have scratch marks - lengthways, indicating a previous attempt at tuning. I can learn about tuning, but I am wondering if it is possible to obtain replacement reed gangs?

 

photos below

 

thanks

phil

 

 

 

added bass reeds photo 10 August 2006

Edited August 10, 2006 by phillean

[Theodore Kloba]

My early concertina / chemnitzer has arrived. The body and bellows seem to be in reasonable condition.

I think it looks better than "reasonable"! Usually some of the corners from the bellows or center bellows frame will be missing. The decorative plate on the air valve has the Arnold design, but those can be easily removed, so the instrument may not be made by Arnold.

It has gangs of reeds on alloy plates (not magnetic), the reeds are rectangular, so I suppose it is an early chemnitzer because it has accordion reeds.

They look like zinc plates, which does give some idea of the date. I think aluminum was introduced in about the 1920s. The reed tongues on many modern "long plate" Chemnitzers are still rectangular. I wouldn't call them accordion reeds.

some of the leathers have fallen off or look quite old, I can replace those.

Some of the smaller reeds are not meant to have leathers. Look for glue residue to see which ones previously had them.

two of the treble buttons have fallen of the wooden action - what is the best glue to use to reattach them ?

I would reccommend high tack fish glue or liquid hide glue. Make sure it can hold the weight of the button while still wet, since they're so hard to clamp.

a number of the tortion springs under the first row of treble keys are broken, where can I find new ones?

You're better off winding your own. Try to find brass wire to match the old and wrap it around a small shaft. Bob Tedrow has a video tutorial on spring making on his site; one other C.net member had an instructional webpage as well.

the reeds, some have a little rust, most look ok, many of the treble reeds have scratch marks - lengthways, indicating a previous attempt at tuning. I can learn about tuning

Make sure you really need to tune it before you start. Tuning these instruments is incredibly time-consuming. It is likely in an old standard (not A=440Hz), and also tuned to just intonation centered around G, so bringing it to a modern standard and equal temperament will mean lots of filing. There's no good way to tune the reeds outside the instrument, so tuning involves repeated removal and reinstallation of the plates.

I am wondering if it is possible to obtain replacement reed gangs?

You might, but it will cost you. They are still made (e.g. by Harmonikas Louny), but not for this layout. They may have a minimum order of several sets.

[phillean]

Thanks Theodore

 

I forgot to ask what glue is best for leather on zinc?

 

There is quite a bit of leak from the valve leathers, eg a couple of the bass notes sounds all the time when the bellows are opened and closed.

 

Many of the treble notes sound quite squeaky so it is hard to know what they are supposed to sound like - apart from just their pitch. Several of the bass notes sound quite deep, not like an anglo concertina. I realy like the sound of the bass.

 

The name on the box it came with and appears to belong to it is, Conrad Eschenbach Markneukirchen. The only reference that I have been able to find to Conrad Eschenbach was a wooden clarinet made in 1883.

 

Another question, what brands should I look for if I am after a second hand modern mechanism chemnitzer. I have never seen one here in Australia though some may exist.

 

phil

[Theodore Kloba]

I forgot to ask what glue is best for leather on zinc?

Historically, I think shellac was used. I have used the "felt & leather glue" from the same supplier I mentioned earlier.

There is quite a bit of leak from the valve leathers, eg a couple of the bass notes sounds all the time when the bellows are opened and closed.

It's likely caused by weak springs. It could also be that the wooden levers have warped over time and the pallets no longer align with the holes in the valveboard, or the leather on the pallets has gotten old. I've replaced it on all my older instruments.

Many of the treble notes sound quite squeaky so it is hard to know what they are supposed to sound like - apart from just their pitch.

I'm not sure what you mean by "squeaky." Could be a number of things.

The name on the box it came with and appears to belong to it is, Conrad Eschenbach Markneukirchen. The only reference that I have been able to find to Conrad Eschenbach was a wooden clarinet made in 1883.

In Maria Dunkel's Bandonion und Konzertina there is no mention of him. The case might not be from the same company that built the instrument. There are a few listed from Markneukirchen: Pfretzschner (about 1928), Schuster (from 1867), Stark (about 1898).

Another question, what brands should I look for if I am after a second hand modern mechanism chemnitzer. I have never seen one here in Australia though some may exist.

I would suggest Patek, Pearl Queen, Star, International, Sitek, Glass. Many of these builders also made instruments with wooden action early in their action, so ask the seller. Some of them also made instruments with true accordion reeds (i.e. two tongues per plate, waxed onto removable blocks) during the 1950s-1980s. Make sure to ask whether the instrument has "long-plate" reeds. Hengel and Echo concertinas are still made, but not likely to turn up used. There are some Italian makes out there that have very a nice action, but are usually very heavy and I don't care for the tone.

[phillean]

The name on the box it came with and appears to belong to it is, Conrad Eschenbach Markneukirchen. The only reference that I have been able to find to Conrad Eschenbach was a wooden clarinet made in 1883.

In Maria Dunkel's Bandonion und Konzertina there is no mention of him. The case might not be from the same company that built the instrument. There are a few listed from Markneukirchen: Pfretzschner (about 1928), Schuster (from 1867), Stark (about 1898).

 

Thanks again for your advice.

 

Below I have put photographs of the box labels, they may be of interest to you. It might not be the correct box but it does fit the instrument perfectly. The label with a lot of text is from the inside of the lid.

 

phil

 

Edited August 9, 2006 by phillean

[Theodore Kloba]

Below I have put photographs of the box labels, they may be of interest to you. It might not be the correct box but it does fit the instrument perfectly. The label with a lot of text is from the inside of the lid.

I only understand a little German, but as near as I can tell, the first two labels (nearly identical text) say that Eschenbach was a manufacturer and distributor of all kinds of instruments. Most likely he didn't make them all. The third label is a maintenance instruction; it explains how to get dust out from the reeds, check condition of the leathers, and realign a reed to the plate if it is rattling, etc.

[phillean]

Thanks for the translations.

 

I have added a photo to my original post, it shows the bass reeds. Sixty four reeds, two for each direction of the sixteen buttons.

 

Below are diagrams of the buttons and their notes - obtained using G-tune and a basic microphone.

 

I haven't shown the octave as I haven't worked out how to display that on G-tune.

 

Bellows squeezed = ^ symbol before the note. X insted of a note means no sound or not one that would register for G-tune/ a creak or blurred sound.

 

The tuning seems to be left hand press 5 = ^G 196hz D 293Hz, right hand press 5 = ^G 393Hz #F 370Hz.

 

The right hand button 7 = ^D 590 Hz C 524 Hz.

 

The right hand button 14 ^C C seems to be around 1058 or 1053 Hz.

 

I would appreciate any comments on the note layout / scale. It appears that the treble has been played a lot more than the bass and there are more problems with the tuning in the treble. I still have to repair / replace some leathers so that might make some notes clearer - prevent two notes from sounding at once.

 

Edited August 10, 2006 by phillean

[Theodore Kloba]

Below are diagrams of the buttons and their notes - obtained using G-tune and a basic microphone.

What you have is a standard Chemnitzer in the key of Bb (A.K.A. "5 press G"). Your instrument sounds a whole tone flat of what's notated on the standard chart.

[phillean]

Below are diagrams of the buttons and their notes - obtained using G-tune and a basic microphone.

What you have is a standard Chemnitzer in the key of Bb (A.K.A. "5 press G"). Your instrument sounds a whole tone flat of what's notated on the standard chart.

 

Thanks, that helps.

 

I don't know enough music theory to predict what notes should be the where I can hear nothing eg

left-bass button 0 pull X (push is D#)

right treble press 2 X (pull is G),

right treble press 4/0 X (pull is D)

right treble pull 13 X (press is D)

 

I have put the buttons back on, that seems to be ok, plus I improved the seam where the ends join the box and bellows.

 

All of the leather valves are curling and some seem to have shrunk -not quite covering the length of the gap. I am trying some leather that I have on hand but I will find something different. The leathers I have may be too thick and stiff or too flexible. I have foun a number of interesting posts on valves on certina.net.

[Theodore Kloba]

left-bass button 0 pull X (push is D#)

Bb

right treble press 2 X (pull is G)

A

right treble press 4/0 X (pull is D)

F#

right treble pull 13 X (press is D)

B

I have put the buttons back on, that seems to be ok, plus I improved the seam where the ends join the box and bellows.

There's no need for an airtight seal between the end and any other parts; the critical seal is between the valveboard and bellows frame. You may also find it worthwhile to install some threaded metal inserts in the screw holes, and replace the screws with machine bolts. This way the wood won't become stripped. (You're likely to open and close it many times in the process of repair/restoration).

All of the leather valves are curling and some seem to have shrunk -not quite covering the length of the gap. I am trying some leather that I have on hand but I will find something different. The leathers I have may be too thick and stiff or too flexible. I have foun a number of interesting posts on valves on certina.net.

The leather you have may not be appropriate: the tanning chemicals used may react with the zinc plates; this is not an issue in English-construction concertinas where the leather is attached only to the valveboard, and not directly to the reed frame. If you expect to replace many of the valves, I would suggest getting them from an accordion parts supply, as accordion valves are perfectly suitable, so long as you get the right sizes. If you're replacing all of them, I might even suggest using "ventile", which are made of mylar rather than leather, and therefore resist shrinkage and curling. See here for an example: http://www.geocities.com/shublom/supplies.html

 

I buy leather for replacing gaskets and hinges from Columbia Organ.

[phillean]

quote]The leather you have may not be appropriate: the tanning chemicals used may react with the zinc plates; this is not an issue in English-construction concertinas where the leather is attached only to the valveboard, and not directly to the reed frame. If you expect to replace many of the valves, I would suggest getting them from an accordion parts supply, as accordion valves are perfectly suitable, so long as you get the right sizes. If you're replacing all of them, I might even suggest using "ventile", which are made of mylar rather than leather, and therefore resist shrinkage and curling. See here for an example: http://www.geocities.com/shublom/supplies.html

 

I buy leather for replacing gaskets and hinges from Columbia Organ.

 

Thanks for the advice on the buttons and notes and for the links to valve leathers. I looked at both links, very useful. I notice that Columbia Organ is using chrome tanned kangaroo skin. I was thinking of something like that, flexible without flopping. I wonder how it compares to the English hairy sheep leather I saw on a concertina page. However, I think I will try the "ventile" mylar. The Canberra climate is very hard on leather valves, very low humidity for most of the year.

 

I have started some web pages on this project, to show the insides of this type of chemnitzer. I could not find any similar on the web, though some concertina restoration pages are relevant. I still need more practice photographing the chemnitzer parts to get the colors consistent and the get the right depth of field on the digital camera, so some images may improve over time. I have larger files 6mp available if people want them.

 

http://home.netspeed.com.au/phillean/chemn...chemnitzer.html

[Theodore Kloba]

notice that Columbia Organ is using chrome tanned kangaroo skin. I was thinking of something like that, flexible without flopping. I wonder how it compares to the English hairy sheep leather I saw on a concertina page.

Kangaroo is just one of their products; they also have hairsheep and cow leather.

 

I have started some web pages on this project, to show the insides of this type of chemnitzer.

I have been trying to get my squeezebox wiki going for some time now. Please contribute there if you like.

[phillean]

I have started some web pages on this project, to show the insides of this type of chemnitzer.

I have been trying to get my squeezebox wiki going for some time now. Please contribute there if you like.

 

thanks

 

I had a look at the site, I am thinking about what sort of information I can contribute.

 

phil

Edited August 13, 2006 by phillean

[Joe Eckert]

I have a Star 'C' box and am in need of someone who can fix some leaking bellows.