Travel

[Chris Timson]

In the U.S., the list of prohibited/permitted items was revised last year, and as a result screwdrivers 7 inches or less in length are allowed in carry-on luggage. You can read the details in this TSA document.

Mot in England, even before the present kerfuffle, as I can testify after a run-in with a jobsworth at Bristol airport in June. The screwdriver in question was about 3 inches long.

 

Chris

[Woody]

.......it could be servceable enough for a shirt stay.......

 

Shirt Stay

 

Definition: Staying away from home a short enough time that only one spare shirt is required?

[Animaterra]

Well, I'm back. And I'm SO glad I didn't try to travel with a concertina!!! But I have to say that despite the horrific security lines, the trips themselves were uneventful-(each way I took 2 airplanes, each flight was about 3 1/4 hours). And the flight attendants gave more drinks than I remember on previous flights- on the last leg of yesterday's journey they made the trip up and down the aisles 4 times.

 

Do I think it's overkill? Probably. Did I feel safe? As much as I ever do. I would prefer never to fly again, because I hate the whole deal without all the security issues, but my dad is slowly dying on the other side of the continent, so I'll have to put myself through the ordeal a few more times at least. But at least I know I don't have to bring a concertina (see related topic).

[Woody]

Re: putting your Concertina in the hold - how about another cheery thought with this snippet from the BBC.....

 

Around 10,000 bags checked in by British Airways passengers have gone missing at airports since the UK security alert began, the airline says.

 

It said half of them were still piled up at airports waiting to be delivered back to their owners.

 

A war of words has erupted between BA and airport operator BAA over who is to blame for the misplaced luggage.

 

 

More cheery tales from Aunty here

 

 

- W

[JimLucas]

Yet another news story:

A 12-year-old boy managed to board a plane, apparently evading the attention of all security personnel.

 

Maybe next time you could get him to take along your concertina and put it in the overhead for when you arrive on board?

[bellowbelle]

And maybe I'll move to Spain someday...it's become too cold here in the winter...but I have to be able to take my dog and all that, so....might be a slow boat ride, for me!

Good luck with that.

 

My mom took some of the last boats over to England for her study abroad trips. This was back in the 70's. I don't think there are any more transatlantic passenger ships in operation these days.

 

Something that I think was lost, by the way, but with insufficient interest, what can you do.

 

Hmm. Well. Looks like I'll have to stick to the USA, then. Maybe I'll finally officially meet my 2nd-cousin-ten-times-removed-or-whatever, who's down in Mississippi -- we've been emailing for a while. Anyway, Podunk (my dog) and I don't have any 'sealegs,' so -- probably wouldn't survive out there in the middle of the Atlantic!

 

I think I'm going to be here for at least a few more winters, anyway. I've started to just ignore summer, it's so short. It's just a fluke. And when it's the middle of winter here, it feels like I may as well be in a remote corner of Siberia!

 

Podunk just breathed a sigh of relief. I think he's glad he won't have to cross the Atlantic any time soon.

[geoffwright]

Box got to Kilrush and back safely despite a run-in with DireAir (see other travel thread).

Some of the others took theirs in the cabin. Most of the others had to pay extra.

A colleague arrived in the pub on the first night and pulled two scalpel blades out of his coat pocket. So much for Blackpools security donkeys.

[carolstosca]

Jim, as I said in my response - the alternative for me was to buy a plane ticket for my accordion! ...as you have said; for every good tale, there's a bad one - but you should bear in mind that it is seldom that good experiences make their way into forums like this.

True, but can all the "good" experiences make up for even one disaster? (In fact, your experience didn't provide you with any excesss "good", only a lack of "bad".)

 

Rami was asking for advice, and I think basically asking whether checking the concertina was risky. It is. The amount of risk depends on many things, but my advice is, "Don't risk it if you don't have to." And I've never forgotten the lyrics to a song I heard years ago: "A man should never gamble more than he can stand to lose."

 

If I were carrying a Stagi, I probably wouldn't mind checking it, though I would carry it on if I could. But if I had to choose between checking a laptop computer and the Stagi, I'd check the Stagi.

 

But a vintage Æola, Edeophone, or Jeffries? No checking. No way. If necessary, the computer stays home. If there's any question about my being able to carry the concertina on board, I travel concertinaless.

 

By car, train, or bus I can take several concertinas to the Scandinavian Squeeze-In. To Arran I took two (one anglo, one English), packed into a single carryon bag. Sometimes I take only one or, as noted above, none.

 

I've had luggage set outside on the tarmac in the Atlanta airport in August for hours, can you imagine my concertina suffering that?

[JimLucas]

I've had luggage set outside on the tarmac in the Atlanta airport in August for hours, can you imagine my concertina suffering that?

That anecdote -- combined with various others -- prompts me to suggest that whoever said that checked bags and shipped parcels receive the same treatment is wrong.

 

It's my understanding that individual shipped parcels are not randomly mixed with checked baggage, nor even handled by the same personnel. I believe that whenever several parcels are being shipped between the same airports, the shipper will consolidate them into containers, and those containers rather than the individual parcels will be loaded onto planes... hoisted, not tossed, and not often stirred or shaken.

 

In fact, it seems to me that the same must be true of checked baggage on large planes. Shifting bags on and off the plane individually would take far too much time. But there's still a difference, since even with such containers the primary concern in packing and unpacking of checked bags will tend to be speed, not safe handling. There's no expectation that shipped parcels will be security-checked and on a flight less than an hour after they're delivered to the shipper, nor that they can be fetched by the recipient within minutes after the plane lands.

 

Edited to add: In fact, the big shippers (DHL, FedEx, UPS) even have their own fleets of planes. So the safest way to take your concertina with you may be to ship it ahead, scheduled to arrive approximately the same time as yourself. (Cost is a separate issue.)

Edited August 22, 2006 by JimLucas

[Woody]

.....the big shippers (DHL, FedEx, UPS) even have their own fleets of planes. So the safest way to take your concertina with you may be to ship it ahead, scheduled to arrive approximately the same time as yourself. (Cost is a separate issue.)

Shipping is no guarantee of it being handled well - I've shipped lots of delicate things over the years and seen all sorts of problems arise. My wife's been dealing with delicate high tech equipment being shipped by specialist shippers and they still sometimes manage to throw it around and break it.

 

There is however a big advantage with shipping in that you can have the package tracked the whole way and know at any stage where it is - rather than it disappearing somewhere in an airport baggage system. There is though a potential disadvantage in that there is the possibility of it becoming delayed through customs (and possibly issues about import duty? Not sure on this).

Edited August 22, 2006 by Woody

[JimLucas]

So the safest way to take your concertina with you may be to ship it ahead, scheduled to arrive approximately the same time as yourself.

Shipping is no guarantee of it being handled well...

Didn't say it was.

 

I said "safest", not "safe".

And I said "may be", not "is".

[Woody]

So the safest way to take your concertina with you may be to ship it ahead, scheduled to arrive approximately the same time as yourself.

Shipping is no guarantee of it being handled well...

Didn't say it was.

 

I said "safest", not "safe".

And I said "may be", not "is".

Wasn't disagreeing with you

[Theodore Kloba]

I've taken mine on road trips around Illinois and to Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Wisconsin, Minnesota, South Dakota and Wyoming. By plane they've made it to Pennsylvania, Texas, Washington and Arizona.

As of last week, Add South Carolina to the list of flight destinations and North Carolina to driving destinations. I took my small bandonion (with new case by Greg Jowaisas). Even though the case was slightly bigger that the officially allowed size (in one dimension), I had no problems carrying on. The overhead bins on an Embraer 170 are tiny, but the instrument fit.

 

On the flight out from O'Hare, the screener swabbed it for some sort of chemical test. Then she asked me how old it was, whether it was in my family or purchased, and whether I knew how to play.

 

On the return flight (from Myrtle Beach), the bandonion didn't even get a second look, although the people at baggage check-in asked my wife some questions about her guitar (musician questions, like "what model is it?") and reminded her to loosen the strings.

 

It sounds like international air travel (except maybe from the UK) is returning to "normal." I just spoke with a friend who recently returned to Chicago from Barcelona; he had the normal amount of carry-on luggage, and small quantities of liquid personal care items.

[Leo]

On the flight out from O'Hare, the screener swabbed it for some sort of chemical test.

Theodore

 

It's to test for chemical residue. It causes problems for competition pistol shooters, and competition trap/skeet shooters. They (TSA screeners) don't seem to see that as a legitimate use in the US. They just react and call their boss over and cry alarm. (Been there on both counts). It comes from handling reloading equipment; and raw gunpowders, and smoke from shooting. No matter how hard your hands are washed; it's embedded in your skin and transfers to handles. It's similar to the complaint of non smokers and odor from a smoking bar. Takes about a week for it to wear off.

 

Glad the rest of your trip went well. It's just an example of each airport being an independent empire. They are all different with no standardization other than guides and outlines.

 

Unfortunately small airplanes like the Embrarer, and the Canadair are here to stay, and are here to replace the larger Douglas and Boeing equipment. It's the wave of the future.

 

Thanks

Leo

Edited August 23, 2006 by Leo

[Brian Peters]

I thought you might all like to hear the very latest news from the front line. Having boasted rather smugly futher up this thread of getting away on a regular basis with both concertina and melodeon as hand baggage, I hit trouble returning to England from Halifax, Nova Scotia this morning. No problem at all with the Canada end - hand baggage nodded through (my wife was with me so the melodeon went as my one piece and the anglo as hers). Unfortunately, though, I had to change planes and airlines at London Gatwick to get back to Manchaester, and, boy, was it a different story there. The old test baskets to measure hand baggage size have been hastily reduced in size, by having plywood strips fitted around the the top, to conform to the new restricitions already described in this thread. Security staff were vetting everyone before they even got as far as the X-ray machines, and insisting that anything larger than a laptop or handbag was tested against the framework. Anything that failed the test was directed straight back to check-in - and the queues for this and for security clearance were extremely long. The melodeon had no chance (well, at least it's insured and they still make the same model), but I thought I might just get away with the concertina - which was in a small cube case since I was right up to hold baggage allowance and my flight case couldn't make the journey - but it exceeded by an inch in one dimension. Did the security person show a bit of intelligent flexibility and make mental compensation for the considerably smaller lengths in the other two dimensions? Not a bit of it (I don't blame him - he was polite enough but clearly under very strict orders). So out came the instrument from its case and, like Cinderella's foot into the glass slipper, it fitted snugly into the frame. The bizarre outcome was that I made the flight to Manchester cradling my uncased, 100-year-old Crabb, in my lap, while its empty case travelled in the hold as check-in. The word "bonkers" springs to mind. I'm not unaware that a major terror plot was apparently thwarted two weeks ago, and would certainly wish any flight carrying me and my family to be thoroughly protected against attack, but as with the aftermath of 9/11, the counter-measures seem arbitrary bordering on hysterical, and quite probably ineffective. It's not that long since the authorities finally realised that nail clippers might not be lethal weapons after all!

the petulant whines of inconvenienced concertina geeks will look decadent and embarrassing in the history books. last week one of the many news reports out of lebanon had a quote from a civilian resident of a bombed out part of lebanon saying, "this is what it is like to experience history." a bunch of new orleans citizens experienced history last year. fellow geeks, we can only pray that our big historical experience may be the inconvenience of not being able to take a concertina on an airplane.

Well yes, pretty well anything we do in our cossetted and (until recent foreign policy decisions made us all vulnerable) safe Western existences looks pretty decadent next to the suffering of the Lebanese or (to pick examples from the top of my head) the people of Rwanda or Chechnya. But that doesn't mean that our "inconvenience" - which in my case is potentially career-threatening - is of no significance. I notice the businessmen got their laptops back pretty quickly, even though that must surely compromise safety to some degree. Is their convenience worth risking multiple airborne bombs for? And do you think that the orchestral musicians with their priceless antique cellos and oboes, who are now unable to complete major international concert engagements, are petulant whiners as well? I find it astonishing that an opinion on a concertina website should treat the very instrument that brings us together with so little respect. Or, should I say, MUSIC with so little respect. I played a concert in the USA on the night of September 11, 2001, and I can tell you that everyone at that gig was desperate that the concert should go ahead, despite my problems in getting to the venue. Not because they thought I was such a star attraction, but because they wanted to comfort themselves with MUSIC in that time of pain. I also know the Lebanon a little, and I would guess that people there are pretty anxious to gather back around themselves some of the trappings of normal life, including their music (I met a master of the oud there many years ago - I'm sure he would be no more content than me about consigning his antique instrument to an aircraft hold). You may be a geek, ceemonster, but I am a musician and proud of it.

 

Sooner or later - if indeed these draconian restrictions persist - I hope organisations such as the Musicians Union might be able to negotiate some kind of deal by which the special needs of instrumentalists can be accommodated, even if only by baggage handlers being persuaded to take their responsibilities seriously; the abnegation by airlines of responsibility for the baggage they carry is scandalous. In the meantime I thank all those who have offered recommendations about suitable flight cases. Weight is a big issue, though. Anyway, this is way too long already. I'll go and lie down now.

Brian

[Chris Timson]

I find it astonishing that an opinion on a concertina website should treat the very instrument that brings us together with so little respect.

One small quote from a reply that said what I wanted to say, only (as befits a professional) very much better than I could.

 

After we had tea in Sidmouth I couldn't remember which day you said you were going to Canada. I'm glad you missed the worst of it.

 

The restrictions seem to me still, after reading all the arguments here and elsewhere, to be far more a Jobsworth's Charter than they ever were a serious attempt to improve the safety of air travellers.

 

Chris

[Leo]

The restrictions seem to me still, after reading all the arguments here and elsewhere, to be far more a Jobsworth's Charter than they ever were a serious attempt to improve the safety of air travellers.

 

Chris

 

Chris

You're pretty close to correct. It's almost all for show.

 

I suspect the next greatest threat will be airplanes diverting and delaying for paper notes threatening harm. After investigation there will be a false alarm. The bad guys win anyhow. We've changed the way we've done business because of "them". Some great philosopher named Churchill said under similar trying circumstances that we should try to live as normal as possible, and not advertise what the "baddies" are creating havoc. (Paraphrased because it was a little before my time but not by much, and I can't put my hand on the exact wording at the moment. I wish I could find it.)

 

There will also be a new perceived threat as the "bad guys" change their tactics while the current focus is on liquids. Carryon instruments and the rest of the "banned items" resembling liquid explosives is beyond my comprehenson. But then again I'm not the experts that the security beaurocrats have setup for our protections.

 

Thanks

A Concertina Geek

Edited August 25, 2006 by Leo

[Woody]

....but as with the aftermath of 9/11, the counter-measures seem arbitrary bordering on hysterical, and quite probably ineffective.

I think it's understandable that when there is an immediate perceived threat the security services implement arbitrary measures, but I have to say that after a couple of weeks they should have got the details sorted. Your particular experience is truly bizzare.

 

It's not that long since the authorities finally realised that nail clippers might not be lethal weapons after all!

My 3 year old daughter is learning Tae Kwon Do. By the time she's 10 perhaps she won't be allowed on planes as she might be a lethal weapon?

 

the petulant whines of inconvenienced concertina geeks .... inconvenience of not being able to take a concertina on an airplane.

...I notice the businessmen got their laptops back pretty quickly, even though that must surely compromise safety to some degree.

Absolutely - possibly more than the terrorists - see here.

 

....yes, pretty well anything we do in our cossetted and (until recent foreign policy decisions made us all vulnerable) safe Western existences....

I think Western foreign policy decisions have been building up these problems for a long time - arguably back to WW1.

 

I find it astonishing that an opinion on a concertina website should treat the very instrument that brings us together with so little respect....

ceemonster's choice of phrasing may be unfortunate, but is it unfair to suggest that perhaps some posts have been somewhat self-absorbed with respect to the impact of this alert? What Concertina players are experiencing is nothing new to many other musicians. Certainly I don't think ceemonster's post can be considered disrespectful to the Concertina itself, but rather to players who have a different opinion to ceemonster's - and is it disrespectful to even suggest on C.net that there might be more important things in the world than playing the Concertina - no matter how difficult that may be to believe?

 

Some great philosopher named Churchill said under similar trying circumstances that we should try to live as normal as possible.....

A good point, but it should be considered in context. Churchill & his government introduced various arbitrary

and ineffective measures that impacted on normal life during WW2 for the sole purpose of building collective resolve. Examples include taking railings and pots and pans for "recycling" into military equipment (most was useless but people felt they were contributing), or the firing of London's anti-aircraft guns, even though they couldn't reach the altitiude of Luftwaffe planes (so people felt they were fighting back).

 

I don't really like analogies to WW2 as I'm not sure they really help. I can have a good guess though what the reaction would have been if Concertina players had complained at the time if they had been banned from taking them on the buses - and it would probably have been supportive of ceemonster's viewpoint.

 

 

Sooner or later - if indeed these draconian restrictions persist - I hope organisations such as the Musicians Union might be able to negotiate some kind of deal by which the special needs of instrumentalists can be accommodated....

I'm not a member, but I believe I'm correct in saying that the MU have been trying to get somewhere for years on this issue - long before the impact of recent security alerts. Given how successful they were in the past, I wouldn't hold your breath.

Edited August 25, 2006 by Woody