Geraghty Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 I'm restoring a Jones 26 button and the main problem I'm facing at the moment is the fact that the scrolled ends arenearly shattered and completely unusable. They're filled with cracks and missing pieces, and currently are not structurally sound enough to use the instrument. You can get an idea of the damage with the photos below, but there are a lot of cracks and splits along the grain that don't really show up. The right side is worse as you can see, with a large section missing under the handrest. But I need to replace both of them before the instrument can be used at all. The thick, hexagonal, structural bits of wood are fine - it's just the thin scrolled pieces at the top. I don't have a wood shop or access to one, but really I just need two thin-ish pieces of wood cut to hexagonal shape and with the right holes drilled in...and perhaps a bit more cut out to let air and sound through. Does anyone know how much it might cost to get this done somewhere? Does anyone have a wood shop and feel like giving something like this a try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Stout Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 ...The thick, hexagonal, structural bits of wood are fine - it's just the thin scrolled pieces at the top. I don't have a wood shop or access to one, but really I just need two thin-ish pieces of wood cut to hexagonal shape and with the right holes drilled in...and perhaps a bit more cut out to let air and sound through. ... If you have the time and patience fretwork can be done by hand with mnimal shop facilities. I've done some (lute roses--not concertinas) using a jewlers saw and a hand drill using needle files to clean up the work. You'd need a board with a vee cut to support the work. You'll break lots of blades. This isn't the way it would be done on an industrial scale, but it is manageable. You'd learn how to do it on one for practice. A problem might be finding the thin stock in the right wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.elliott Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 I made new action box covers for a pin-hole aeola, I think fretting like this would be easier. I scanned the end plates on a flat bed, and took the image into corel draw. In corel I and traced out the surviving woodwork, and 'drew' in the missing bit by looking at the other end, and appropriate pictures from elsewhere. This was then printed to size and became a working template. The rest was just a bit of patience and fret saw work. The hardest bits were planeing the wood down to a 4-5mm sheet, and then trepanning the holes, and back tapering them part way to accept the bushings, but your instrument was probably not bushed round the keys' holes. To get the staining/ polishing done, find a local antique furniture restorer, but be prepared to re-ream out the keys' holes Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 Since quite a large proportion of the wood is still there it might be worth trying to strengthen and repair the ends. If you are currently planning to make new ones anyway there is little to be lost and much to be gained. I would try glueing a sheet of veneer to the back of the fretwork. One sheet cut to cover the whole end on the inside. Use animal glue and the same technique as traditional veneering will work. An old electric iron makes a good substitute for a veneering hammer. You will need to find some matching timber for the missing parts, but they are slightly out of sight so you may not need an exact match. Recut the new wood to match the existing pattern as described by Dave E. In the undamaged areas you should be able to use a craft knife to remove the veneer from the holes in the fretwork, and the button holes. The result will be an instrument which still looks like an authentic Jones, and I'd guess a lot less labout than making new from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.elliott Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 Since quite a large proportion of the wood is still there it might be worth trying to strengthen and repair the ends. If you are currently planning to make new ones anyway there is little to be lost and much to be gained. I would try glueing a sheet of veneer to the back of the fretwork. One sheet cut to cover the whole end on the inside. Use animal glue and the same technique as traditional veneering will work. An old electric iron makes a good substitute for a veneering hammer. You will need to find some matching timber for the missing parts, but they are slightly out of sight so you may not need an exact match. Recut the new wood to match the existing pattern as described by Dave E. In the undamaged areas you should be able to use a craft knife to remove the veneer from the holes in the fretwork, and the button holes. The result will be an instrument which still looks like an authentic Jones, and I'd guess a lot less labout than making new from scratch. The trouble with this idea is that the clearance between the arm/ pad and gromment assemblies on the long arms of many anglos, and the odd edeophone, can make the reinforcement of the end from underneath impossible without affecting the action and key heights Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accordionmagic Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Hi, Its quite possible to repair and strengthen fretwork ends through the thickness with plywood 'biscuits'. In order to make a good repair, break up the end where there is a major crack so that you end up with separate pieces, this is the only way to clean the break and get glue to stick where you want it. Glue the pieces back together and then it's time for the Dremmel !! The stock 'cut-off' wheels are of a thickness similar to very thin plywood, say 0.6mm or 24thou, use this to cut through the end pieces ACROSS the repaired break but DONT go through. A single cut straight into the wood with no sideways movement. Draw around the same wheel and cut out biscuits from stock plywood. Glue in place, leave to set for 24 hours and finally trim flush with the underside. The resulting joint is remarkably strong and with a bit of time and effort cannot be detected, see the photos below. Cheers Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidFR Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 I've never seen anything like this before, with that additional smaller button near the inside row and TWO buttons where a normal drone would be. What notes are these/what are they for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geraghty Posted August 7, 2006 Author Share Posted August 7, 2006 That's why I bought it, I'd never seen anything like it either. From what I can tell, the red button is a drone (don't know the pitch yet), the black is a duck call which still works, and the little white one goes to some small metal disc, it might be a squeaker or something, but one side (the non-pad side) is covered with rust so I don't know if that one still works. The instrument seems to be a D/A, so maybe the drone is a D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 The trouble with this idea is that the clearance between the arm/ pad and gromment assemblies on the long arms of many anglos, and the odd edeophone, can make the reinforcement of the end from underneath impossible without affecting the action and key heights Dave You are right of course Dave, that could be a problem. But my main point was that repair rather than replacement is probably the way to go, and Roy has provided a better repair method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterT Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I've never seen anything like this before, with that additional smaller button near the inside row and TWO buttons where a normal drone would be. What notes are these/what are they for? Nick Passmore has (well, I saw it over 10 years ago; he now plays mainly fiddle, but I'm sure still has the concertina) a Jeffries Anglo with two drone buttons in this position. It's possible to hold down both buttons with the thumb. Of course, originally, these buttons might not have been tuned as drones. Regards, Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geofflowes Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 I'm restoring a Jones 26 button and the main problem I'm facing at the moment is the fact that the scrolled ends arenearly shattered and completely unusable. They're filled with cracks and missing pieces, and currently are not structurally sound enough to use the instrument. You can get an idea of the damage with the photos below, but there are a lot of cracks and splits along the grain that don't really show up. The right side is worse as you can see, with a large section missing under the handrest. But I need to replace both of them before the instrument can be used at all. The thick, hexagonal, structural bits of wood are fine - it's just the thin scrolled pieces at the top. I don't have a wood shop or access to one, but really I just need two thin-ish pieces of wood cut to hexagonal shape and with the right holes drilled in...and perhaps a bit more cut out to let air and sound through. Does anyone know how much it might cost to get this done somewhere? Does anyone have a wood shop and feel like giving something like this a try? Hi I would suggest you contact woodworking clubs in your area.There are many hobbyist scroll sawers who would find projects of this kind relatively simple. Geoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geraghty Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 Hi I would suggest you contact woodworking clubs in your area.There are many hobbyist scroll sawers who would find projects of this kind relatively simple. Geoff. That sounds like a great idea, I'll try that - and I'd be interested in joining such a group too! Still miss the woodworking tools I had in the states. I'll start looking, but if anyone knows of such a group near W13 I'd appreciate the heads-up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betty Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I'm eyeing up this English on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...hlink:middle:uk but I'm worried about the condition of the ends, and the fact they have been reinforced. Any idea whether I would need to repair the ends completely before being able to play it? I think it looks sound, but am not sure. Woodwork is not my forte! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I'm eyeing up this English on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...hlink:middle:uk but I'm worried about the condition of the ends, and the fact they have been reinforced. Any idea whether I would need to repair the ends completely before being able to play it? I think it looks sound, but am not sure. Woodwork is not my forte! Its quite likely you could be able to play it without repairing the fretwork, but, you should expect that it will require other work before it plays well. You should probably assume that it will benefit from having new pads and valves and being tuned. It does look remarkably clean inside, probably because its not been played much. I'm also wondering about the sellers description, which for example says " It appears to be one of the better model 48 Button Lachenal English Concertinas". Well I don't know how much the seller knows about them, but to me it looks like the most basic model of Lachenal EC with brass reeds, bone buttons, and flat wooden ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 ... I'm worried about the condition of the ends, and the fact they have been reinforced. Looking at the photos, I'd wonder if what the seller describes as "The frets have been backed-up at some time with very thin wood to stabilize them" might not be simply the original baffles behind the fretwork? In which case, it may be that nothing has been done to reinforce the cracks after all. Also, from the serial number, the date would be closer to 1882 than 1895. Otherwise, I'd agree with everything Theo has said, except that, having rosewood ends, it would have been second from the bottom of Lachenal's range - the very bottom of the range one having mahogany ends in the same design. So don't expect it to be a great player, even with everything fixed on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kautilya Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 SPECIALIST WOOD supplier? I believe there is a specialist wood supplier (e.g. African blackwood for flutes etc) somewhere on the A1 around Catterick - anyone know the name...? Was told but can't recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Crossland Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Laser cutting new ends from a scan of the existing ends is also a relatively easy option - contact me off topic if you want more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Crossland Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) SPECIALIST WOOD supplier?I believe there is a specialist wood supplier (e.g. African blackwood for flutes etc) somewhere on the A1 around Catterick - anyone know the name...? Was told but can't recall. John Boddy at Boroughbridge will supply you the wood, but not cut into nice thin slices that you will need to cut new ends. Try luthiers, who often have guitar backs or material for them of the right dimensions Edited June 6, 2009 by Billcro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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