Colonel Saunderson Marching Band

[Dirge]

There's a link to this concertina marching band on C Net that doesn't work, just gives a rather agressive looking link page. However the band does still exist and has it's website. I've not worked out how to set a link up so you'll have to look for yourselves but it came out top when I Googled it.

 

You have to work to see any concertinas in the pictures (they are there) but the whole thing is a fascinating glimpse into another lifestyle. If you've 5 minutes increase your education. As an Englishman, all I knew about Loyallists was that they had a 'marching season' which often degenerated into riots with the Ulster catholics.

 

The concertina bit is not considered to be of interest to the viewer, curiously. They spend a lot of time getting over their message of serious Loyallism but don't make anything of what I thought would have been their really unique selling point. I did get the feeling that there might be a central Loyallist web-site designer at work with a one track mind, doing all the marching bands (of which there are an amazing amount).

 

Anyway, there you go. Offered without comment either way on the politics behind it all purely for your concertina-based interest. Can we talk about this one without sidetracking into Irish politics, I ask myself? Is it really wise to hit the 'post'button? We'll see...

[PeterT]

Try this:

 

http://csmb.8m.com/

 

Regards,

Peter.

[Dirge]

That's the one, Peter. Thanks very much.

[Daniel Hersh]

I had no idea until reading this that there was a concertina/loyalist connection, but found more info once I started searching.

 

Here is a picture of this band that shows one or two concertina players. It certainly seems to be part of a bigger concertina-related musical/political movement. From the same site:

 

"The current Colonel Saundersons Band was reformed in 1968 when arguments in the Protestant Star Concertina Band caused a split, members then moved from N0 6 District in the south end of the city to N0 92 District in the northend of the city and took over the old warrant of the old Colonel Saundersons Memorial Concertina Band It was at this point the band allowed females to join

 

The band quickly established itself, and became one of the premier bands in the Everton Road area of Liverpool, culminating in the recording of its first LP "Marching with Colonel Saundersons" which was distributed world wide the band continued to grow and peaked at a membership of 62 which for the city of Liverpool was vast The band were booked to play in parades up and down the length of the country and more recently in Scotland where the band had the honor of accompanying the Sons of Gideon L.O.L. 52 Bo'ness for the 12th celebration parades (Grand Lodge Of The East) for around 8 years and it was at these parades the band won it's first trophy The Walter Raeburn Memorial cup which was given to the best Accordion & Concertina band on parade, and in subsequent years the band retained the trophy on no fewer than 5 years."

 

The Star Concertina Band mentioned in that quote seems to still be around too and is depicted in the last pic on this page. And there's also a Bootle Concertina Band, with lots of pics on their site.

 

I will with some difficulty refrain from commenting on the politics behind all this.

 

Daniel

 

That's the one, Peter. Thanks very much.

[JimLucas]

I will with some difficulty refrain from commenting on the politics behind all this.

Well, since it appears that these bands have both English and anglo concertinas, I think the important question -- and very politically charged it is -- is whether either would be welcome in an Irish session.

Oops, wrong thread!

[Stephen Chambers]

I've been aware of the Orange concertina bands of Liverpool, and their marches in Southport every year, since the early 1970s. For one thing they sometimes got a mention in Neil Wayne's Free Reed magazines, and then there was a Lancashire concertina dealer who sometimes sold me Anglos that had come from the bands (I only know of them playing Anglos and the occasional duet, I never heard of them using an English). But by the time they let go of an instrument, it was likely to be in quite a poor state and I often had to do a lot of work to resurrect them.

 

Some of those instruments would then "change sides", and get sold to traditional players here! Indeed, that sometimes happens with accordions too: Only a couple of weeks ago I did a trade with a Northern Ireland accordion dealer, at the Willie Clancy Week, that saw me finish up with a nice mid-1950s Paolo Soprani that was one of 10 he had got from an Orange band, and we were joking that it only knew how to play Derry's Walls, but couldn't be persuaded to play Roddy McAuley. Shades of "The Old Orange Flute", or "The Fenian Record Player"! On the other hand, I've met several Orange bandsmen who "have a foot in both camps" and also play traditional music, whilst the Rev. Gary Hastings is both a fine traditional flute player and an authority on the Orange fife/Lambeg drum tradition.

 

I never did get to visit Southport on 12th July (for one thing it tends to clash with the Willie Clancy Week), but Google produced some video clips of the march there in 1990, that feature several concertina bands, or the odd concertina in an accordion band. Unfortunately the quality of the film is poor, and it seems to be running the wrong way (unless they all play the accordion/flute left-handed, and write backwards on their bass drums!), but it gives a good idea of both the event and the sound of a marching concertina band (interspersed with flute, accordion & bagpipe bands).

 

The links are:

 

liverpool orange parade , southport 1990 part1

 

liverpool orange lodge parade southport 1990 part 2

 

liverpool orange parade southport 1990 part3

 

liverpool orange day parade southport 1990part4

[Daniel Hersh]

Great info and links, Stephen--thanks!

 

I wonder if my concertina (bought from you around 1982) might have been one of theirs. It's an Anglo that you said had been just slightly better than a pile of concertina parts when you got it.

 

Some of the tunes in those YouTube clips seem to have a foot in both camps too--I recognized Star of the County Down and Mairi's Wedding.

 

This whole topic could provide the material for a good scholarly article if someone has the time and inclination to research and write it.

 

I've been aware of the Orange concertina bands of Liverpool, and their marches in Southport every year, since the early 1970s. For one thing they sometimes got a mention in Neil Wayne's Free Reed magazines, and then there was a Lancashire concertina dealer who sometimes sold me Anglos that had come from the bands (I only know of them playing Anglos and the occasional duet, I never heard of them using an English). But by the time they let go of an instrument, it was likely to be in quite a poor state and I often had to do a lot of work to resurrect them.

 

Some of those instruments would then "change sides", and get sold to traditional players here! Indeed, that sometimes happens with accordions too: Only a couple of weeks ago I did a trade with a Northern Ireland accordion dealer, at the Willie Clancy Week, that saw me finish up with a nice mid-1950s Paolo Soprani that was one of 10 he had got from an Orange band, and we were joking that it only knew how to play Derry's Walls, but couldn't be persuaded to play Roddy McAuley. Shades of "The Old Orange Flute", or "The Fenian Record Player"! On the other hand, I've met several Orange bandsmen who "have a foot in both camps" and also play traditional music, whilst the Rev. Gary Hastings is both a fine traditional flute player and an authority on the Orange fife/Lambeg drum tradition.

 

I never did get to visit Southport on 12th July (for one thing it tends to clash with the Willie Clancy Week), but Google produced some video clips of the march there in 1990, that feature several concertina bands, or the odd concertina in an accordion band. Unfortunately the quality of the film is poor, and it seems to be running the wrong way (unless they all play the accordion/flute left-handed, and write backwards on their bass drums!), but it gives a good idea of both the event and the sound of a marching concertina band (interspersed with flute, accordion & bagpipe bands).

 

The links are:

 

liverpool orange parade , southport 1990 part1

 

liverpool orange lodge parade southport 1990 part 2

 

liverpool orange parade southport 1990 part3

 

liverpool orange day parade southport 1990part4

[Stephen Chambers]

I wonder if my concertina (bought from you around 1982) might have been one of theirs. It's an Anglo that you said had been just slightly better than a pile of concertina parts when you got it.

Daniel,

 

It's a long time ago, and I can't remember now, but it sounds like it could well have been one of them.

 

Some of the tunes in those YouTube clips seem to have a foot in both camps too--I recognized Star of the County Down and Mairi's Wedding.

Like instruments, and musicians, tunes can belong to both camps: But sometimes the titles are different, and woe betide you if you get the name wrong!

Edited July 31, 2006 by Stephen Chambers

[Woody]

Like instruments, and musicians, tunes can belong to both camps: But sometimes the titles are different, and woe betide you if you get the name wrong!

I used to know some people heavily involved in the Orange Order and they were very strange. In public on marches etc... they'd speak and act (and I'm sure believed) much as you would expect - but in private they'd sit around, have a few drinks and then start singing a lot of "rebel" songs "because they've got the best ones". Funny old world.

 

- W

[Rhomylly]

This whole topic could provide the material for a good scholarly article if someone has the time and inclination to research and write it.

 

[

 

Hmm.

 

 

Hmmm.

 

I guess this is a wierd reason and place to announce this, but I am quitting my job Friday, and will be going back to school this fall to hopefully finally finish my Bachelor's...eventually.

 

I am taking the dreaded, boring requisite English 104 Writing the Research Paper this fall. I think I may have found my topic

[Animaterra]

Good luck, Rhomylly!!

[bellowbelle]

 

This whole topic could provide the material for a good scholarly article if someone has the time and inclination to research and write it.

 

[

 

Hmm.

 

 

Hmmm.

 

I guess this is a wierd reason and place to announce this, but I am quitting my job Friday, and will be going back to school this fall to hopefully finally finish my Bachelor's...eventually.

 

I am taking the dreaded, boring requisite English 104 Writing the Research Paper this fall. I think I may have found my topic

 

Congrats & Good Luck, and also, it'd be great if you could share some (or all) of your article with us (or me) when it's done!

 

I am so confused about some of this stuff....I'm not even sure what an English Loyalist actually is, etc..

 

I often wonder, too, about how some people or groups perceive others 'across the pond' that have the same 'ID tag' but who may not fit the same description that goes with that tag. Some of us have made amazing breaks from our historic ties, either by choice or by strong suggestion, but I've often wondered if this happens more typically in the USA than in the UK. (Sorry...I'm trying to make sense, here, but without allowing any political talk...hehe).

 

Well, blab blab blab...I'll shut up now.

[Stephen Chambers]

I am so confused about some of this stuff....I'm not even sure what an English Loyalist actually is, etc..

Wendy,

 

Almost everybody else in England is similarly confused about it. But it might help if I explain that a very large proportion of the population of Liverpool has Irish roots, so much so that you might sometimes hear it described as "the second largest Irish city in the world", or even "the capital of Ireland". Hence the Irish surnames of two of the Beatles, John Lennon and Paul McCartney.

 

Otherwise, sectarianism in Glasgow (another city with a large Northern Ireland population) seems to now be largely channelled into the two sides' rival football teams, Glasgow Rangers and Celtic.

[Samantha]

I found myself in Glasgow last year on marching day and I found the enormous amount of "popular music making" (i.e. music made by ordinary people) uplifting even though I find the politics alienates me.

Samantha

[Woody]

I found myself in Glasgow last year on marching day and I found the enormous amount of "popular music making" (i.e. music made by ordinary people) uplifting even though I find the politics alienates me.

Samantha

 

I know what you mean. The politics seems like something from another time, but I'm a sucker for a good marching band - especially pipes and drums.

 

- W

[Dirge]

I believe that one day people will go to northern Ireland to see the marches purely for fun. Down here in Somerset we have 'carnival' to celebrate the failure of that great catholic plot, the Gunpowder Plot of 1605. Noone remembers why it happens (on the night); we just have a brilliant time. And by the way this has got to be one of the most spectacular, least publicised events I've ever come across, if anyone fancies a trip to Angleterre...

 

One day the Northern Irish will have moved on from all this religion stuff and the Orange marches will become a great excuse for a party, I sincerely hope.

 

Mind you, a good fanatic does provide some spice to life...

[John Wild]

I found myself in Glasgow last year on marching day and I found the enormous amount of "popular music making" (i.e. music made by ordinary people) uplifting even though I find the politics alienates me.

Samantha

 

My main memory of these marches when growing up in Glasgow is of finding that a major through road was blocked for a long time until the procession had gone by. Thus it took a very long time to reach the city centre for a good bit of trainspotting!

 

I would question Samantha's definitions above, as it did not seem to me at the time that these were 'ordinary people' 'making popular music'. They and the music were popular only among themselves and revived for the specific occasion, not heard for the rest of the year. However, I really would prefer to let it lie, and not get involved in an argument over it.

 

Regards

 

John

[Dirge]

I did start all this with a cautionary 'let's leave the politics' comment. I posted it purely for the curiousity of it all.