China Scam 22 July

[Leo]

How can an English offering on EBay have the same serial number as a China offering??

Quote both: "This is a pretty little 20 key anglo by Lachenal and Co No 188059-c 1915".

Fascinating that the clone shows up within hours of the legitimate offering?

 

The Original Offering from England. S/He says it's (restored):

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lachenal-20-key-Anglo-...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

The clone offering from China. They say it's new:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lachenal-20-key-Anglo-...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

By the way if anybody is interested in the clones other offerings, here they are, (an interesting mix of instruments):

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZvcxzjk05QQhtZ-1

 

Should I gamble on the buy it now price from China of $200.26 and delivery price of $62.58, and forgo the English that would probably go a lot higher than their starting bid of $371.72

 

Thanks

Leo

Edited July 23, 2006 by Leo

[JimLucas]

Fascinating that the clone shows up within hours of the legitimate offering?

Just shows that they're not making full use of the available technology. After all, it should be possible to write a computer program to monitor eBay for concertina (and other) auctions and clone them automatically. That should only take minutes.

 

An intriguing speculation: There seems to be only one person/group in China doing these scams. Otherwise they would duplicate each other, not just duplicate legitimate auctions. So is this being run by an organized syndicate that has enough power to suppress the competition? Come to think of it, didn't we used to see scams like this from other countries, but with less frequency? What happened to those guys?

[Leo]

An intriguing speculation: There seems to be only one person/group in China doing these scams. Otherwise they would duplicate each other, not just duplicate legitimate auctions. So is this being run by an organized syndicate that has enough power to suppress the competition? Come to think of it, didn't we used to see scams like this from other countries, but with less frequency? What happened to those guys?

 

I think a more intriguing speculation would be on the first glance: why would they damage their own legitimate commerce as evidenced by these:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/English-Concertina-Acc...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mini-English-Concertin...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Anglo-System-Concertin...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Seamans-Concertina-dou...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

At least I'm pretty sure these have chinese origination, even though they may be badged by someone else??????? If they are the same group, maybe they should talk to the guys in the legitimate department down the hall.

 

Thanks for the education

Leo

Edited July 23, 2006 by Leo

[JimLucas]

An intriguing speculation: There seems to be only one person/group in China doing these scams. Otherwise they would duplicate each other, not just duplicate legitimate auctions. So is this being run by an organized syndicate that has enough power to suppress the competition?

I think a more intriguing speculation would be on the first glance: why would they damage their own legitimate commerce as evidenced by these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/English-Concertina-Acc...1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mini-English-Concertin...1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Anglo-System-Concertin...1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Seamans-Concertina-dou...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

At least I'm pretty sure these have chinese origination, even though they may be badged by someone else??????? If they are the same group, maybe they should talk to the guys in the legitimate department down the hall.

Where did you get the notion that criminal businesses worry about damaging their "legitimate" competition? Or that in a country as big as China, they would be "down the hall" from each other?

 

But I really suspect that those "legitimate" offerings are just another set of scams. If you look closely, you'll find that at least the middle two are standard Stagi models, and the "auctions" state that the last three are "Made in Italy." Yet their Buy It Now prices are so far below what The Button Box charges (approx. US $75 for the mini-English, vs. $475 from The Button Box) that they're almost certainly below Stagi's wholesale price. And both a 20-button and a 40-button at exactly the same price???

 

Meanwhile, the first one is a typical Chinese-made English, of the sort commonly sold by American eBay dealers, e.g., here, where it has a But It Now price of $114 (and some of the same text), far below the Chinese price, which is about $260 dollars. That's an apparent "clone" of the price of a Jackie, though the instrument pictured isn't an actual Jackie. (The Jackie's ends look very similar, and I believe it's made in the same factory, but to a very different quality standard.)

 

Not necessarily the same scammers, but do you still think they're legit?

 

P.S. What payment methods are those guys offering? On all of them I'm getting the following message: " There are no available payment methods in your country. Please do not bid on this item." My country is Denmark, and as far as I know, all legitimate payment methods are available here.

[PeterT]

On all of them I'm getting the following message: " There are no available payment methods in your country. Please do not bid on this item." My country is Denmark, and as far as I know, all legitimate payment methods are available here.

Same comment in UK.

 

Regards,

Peter.

[JimLucas]

On all of them I'm getting the following message: " There are no available payment methods in your country. Please do not bid on this item." My country is Denmark, and as far as I know, all legitimate payment methods are available here.

Same comment in UK.

Hmm. Just speculation, but what if everybody is getting that message? Then the only way to "participate" in the "auctions" would be to first contact the "seller" directly (message forwarded by eBay), thus opening up communication outside eBay.

 

Now why do I think that would lead to no online bids, but potentially several transactions occurring outside of eBay (where of course noone can see that other transactions are taking place for the same "item") in which money is paid, nothing is delivered, and Ebay shrugs its virtual shoulders and says, "You broke our rules, so we can't help you"? And note that without an on-eBay transaction the "buyer" would be unable to leave any (negative) feedback as a warning to others.

[Leo]

.........Not necessarily the same scammers, but do you still think they're legit?

 

P.S. What payment methods are those guys offering? On all of them I'm getting the following message: " There are no available payment methods in your country. Please do not bid on this item." My country is Denmark, and as far as I know, all legitimate payment methods are available here.

 

Hadn't considered a different group. Legit? Not for a second now, however a few months ago yes. You guys here collectively pointed out what to look for in the adds. Took a while to put it all together. I'm slow. In the US they also show no payement methods.

 

Thanks

Leo

[JimLucas]

You guys here collectively pointed out what to look for in the adds. Took a while to put it all together.

"All"? I'm sure they'll come up with other things.

 

But the general rule to avoid becoming the victim of a crime is:

Learn to think like criminals (and thus anticipate what they might try), rather than expecting criminals to think the way you normally do.

[Leo]

........."All"? I'm sure they'll come up with other things........

 

"all" as in all that I've learned, certainly not all there are. Might not be something new but I do say they are persistent. After being closed down yesterday. it shows up again this morning.

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4344