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Newbie Needs Help:)


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hi everybody,

im new to this forum, well im new to the concertina world in general. I'd like to start playing but turns out -its quite difficult to choose what kind of concertina to aquire. at first i wanted to get an accordion but most of them seem too big for me (im a petite girl with some back issues) so i decided to start with a concertina and perhaps move on if i like playing it as much as i love listening to it.

what's really the difference between anglo and english? i keep getting different answers.

i'd like to play the more melodic tunes, ballads, spanish/italian stuff and i dont nessesarily want to settle for easy. i want something that sounds nice that i can sing along with.

and also is it safe to get one online (ebay proably)?

so please help me in this new venture

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Hello A-bear-01.gif Inga, ya got the bear here.

 

I'm like you, new to the concertina world. But I have been doing some research for about a month now so I have learned a few things. You asked what the differance between an Anglo and an English is. The maine differance is a Anglo concertina is tuned like a harmonica where you get different notes on the push/pull (as in blow/draw on a harmonica) from the same button. Whereas you get the same note on both the push/pull action on a English concertina.

 

If you check out my posts here on the forum boards we had quite a big talk about all this. Look for the posts by bear..........

 

Try these links, some good reading................

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4251

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4236

 

Good luck

Edited by bear
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so what did you decided on with all the reserach? what kind do u think you're going to get?

 

 

Hello A-bear-01.gif Inga, ya got the bear here.

 

I'm like you, new to the concertina world. But I have been doing some research for about a month now so I have learned a few things. You asked what the differance between an Anglo and an English is. The maine differance is a Anglo concertina is tuned like a harmonica where you get different notes on the push/pull (as in blow/draw on a harmonica) from the same button. Whereas you get the same note on both the push/pull action on a English concertina.

 

If you check out my posts here on the forum boards we had quite a big talk about all this. Look for the posts by bear..........

 

Try these links, some good reading................

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4251

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4236

 

Good luck

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what's really the difference between anglo and english? i keep getting different answers. i'd like to play the more melodic tunes, ballads, spanish/italian stuff and i dont nessesarily want to settle for easy. i want something that sounds nice that i can sing along with.
Besides the push/pull issue, there are speed, range, key, note flexibility, and style issues too.

 

Both systems do well with melodic tunes though if you want to play really quickly, English is easier to play fast tunes on than (the same quality) anglo.

 

Most concertinas have (about a) 3 and half octave range, and depending what model that range may start above middle C and go up to bat-like ranges, or may start a bit below MC, or way below MC, etc. The most common anglo is a C/G (stands for the keys the "home rows" are set up to play in), and it's range is from the C below MC and up. A very useful "tune" range. One plays tunes on both sides of the instrument - but because of that it's difficult to play an accompaniment and tune at the same time. People who like to play fuller music like that often like a G/D anglo which is a half octave lower - which allows one to play the tune mostly on the right side leaving the left side more free for accompaniment.

 

The most common English (called a treble) starts on the G below MC which is ideal for most tunes - but because it is played with all the fingers on BOTH sides for tunes, playing full accompaniment at the same time is very challenging. And depending on the range where one likes the accompaniment, many people prefer a tenor English which starts on the C below MC and allows the accompaniment to be comfortably "below" the tune. Many singers also tend to prefer tenors (or baritones!) as they can "support" their voice by playing under it.

 

Anglos are set up in "keys" with two of the rows of buttons being in keys a 5th apart such as C/G, G/C, F/Bb, etc. There is often another row of buttons which are most of the chromatic notes as well as some of the "key" notes but in reversed push/pull. It's easiest to play anglos in the keys it's set up, associated minors and modes, and a couple adjacent keys. But playing in Bb (for instance) on a C/G box can be very difficult. Makes things extra tough if your favorite singing key is Ab and most of the tunes you'd like to play are in A and D.

 

Englishes are more like pianos in that they are extremely easy to play in C and the chromatic notes are all there adjacent to the "white" notes. Each key further away from C is only slightly more difficult to play - and actually easier than on piano as they share similar fingering "shapes" or patterns.

 

I think of "flexibility" as the ease at which one can play certain notes at the same, or adjacent times. For instance if you want a quick chromatic run, it's dead easy on English and a real bear on anglo. Holding a lower note while playing a melody is impossible on anglo and manageable on English. OTOH, I find it easier to find and play simple accompaniment or chords on anglo (in it's home keys) than on English (which comes in real handy when singing where one's brain is already majorly engaged in remembering the words with little left over for playing the box).

 

The "style" of music can include lots of things such as being able to play smoothly (difficult on anglo and very easy on English) or with "swing" (inherent for anglo, more difficult on English) and accompaniment styles ("stride" is easy on anglo in home keys and very hard on English, overlapping antiphony is easier on English than anglo).

 

There are also duet concertinas which have a combination of both anglo and English qualities and limitations. Their main feature is that their notes play the same in both bellows directions AND they have a treble and bass sides with about an octave of overlap. This allows great flexibility in playing part music (accompaniment AND melody at the same time. Depending on the types of music you want to play, a duet may be the answer.

 

The "sounds nice" is really up to the player. Everyone has different preferences. It seems that more and more people are drawn to the softer, smoother sound of the less expensive accordion-reeded models... at least as beginners. I knew one very good recoreded performer that wouldn't abide anything "harsher" than Stagi's. Eventually though he wound up getting a vintge box as Stagi's action was really limiting him. He still prefers the sound though. That was before hybrids hit the scene so maybe he's bought a hybrid by now (even though I think that most hybrids sound closer to vintage concertinas than to the inexpensive accorion-reeded ones like the Chinese and Italians make).

and also is it safe to get one online (ebay proably)?
The more informed you are of concertinas and the way eBay works the safer your eBay purchase will be. There are many unscrupulous eBay sellers as well as many good-meaning but unknowledgeable ones. Just because a "power seller" with a great rating says a concertina is an "antique" or of "best" quality, or in "perfect" condition, etc. doesn't mean much. Most likely the guy has never touched the box and knows zip about it. Most of such boxes are new Chinese fiascoes or trashed out bottom end vintage ones. The safest route is to get a box from a reputable dealer who warrants their boxes and work, and will allow you to experience the box before you buy.
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If it is any help I'm a couple of months ahead of you. I decided on an English ( though I'm not plugging it) because I was always confused by the blow and suck of a harmonica. Also I wanted to play a range of music in a range of keys.

I then bought a second hand Gremlin 48 key from e bay at a price which I thought was quite reasonable, though I am reluctant to investigate the going price for them in case I was "done" !! But it is in fairly good condition but is a bit sticky/ wheezy on a couple of sharps. Now I have the repair or not difficulty which I wouldn't have if I had bought new.

I don't know if it helps but I thought I would share it.

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Inga you asked which concertina I have decided on getting. To start with let me explane that I like the same style music that you do. Except I'm no musician, I cannot read music and have very little musical talents. But I do enjoy playing around at it. Mostly playing the melody line of a song just for my own enjoyment. I'll never be good enough to play with a band or other instruments or with background music.

 

Now with that said, being that I already play a diatonic harmonica I'm looking at getting (have not got it yet) a 30 button Anglo. Mr. Richard Morse said a lot that should be helpful in making up your mind as he knows a lot more about concertinas then I do. As to buying a concertina on ebay. I have to say that you need to know just what your doing and what your buying before buying anything on ebay. I buy and sell items on ebay myself. I believe that no one should buy anything on ebay that if it is lost or you get cheated out of your money it would not matter. If you cannot afford to loose the amount of money an item costs, "DO NOT BUY IT". Its as simple as that.

 

My suggestion to you is do a couple of months of research before buying anything. And if there is a music shop near where you live go there and try a couple different ones out.

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Hello I'm not that much further along than you and went throught a steep learning curve and it hasn't stopped.

 

The parent site for this forum has a vast library of information that I explored before I started seriously asking about concertina.

http://www.concertina.net/

Look on the left side for the information

 

Another one is:

http://www.concertina.com/

A lot of good information written by experienced people with a lot of accurate knowledge.

 

Not to pry, but to be helpful, what part of the world do you live in, and have you played an instrument before? I'don't have a backround in music. (can barely play a radio), so the responses you get from the ladies and gentlemen on this net will probably be closer tailored to your needs.

 

I can't make a harmonica work, I get confused with the in and out note differences, so the suggestion that for me an "English" style would be the more rewarding choice. After 2 months of trying to play it I agree. Not long on experience, but it amuses me to aspire.

 

Hope this helps

Thanks

Leo

Edited by Leo
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You know, we get an awful lot of queries of this nature. Perhaps we should set up a FAQ page that answers this eternal question.

Until then, here 's my slant on should I buy an Anglo or an English.

 

This is a big generalisation . I'll duck my head after posting as I'm sure somebody will take exception.

 

 

If you fancy playing adapatations of classical pieces. If you fancy playing just the tune in a band.....but being able ultimately to play the tune really fast with lots of skill, and if you want to be able to play in any key, then go for an English concertina.

 

If you fancy being able to play jolly, punchy dance tunes at barn dances, or for Morris and the like. If you want to be able to shorten the learning curve (whilst being aware of the fact that although the tunes that you play sound nice, but you probably have loads more to learn). If you prefer to play traditional country dance and folk music. If you'd like to be able to accompany yourself .....and not take too long to learn how to do this, and if you don't mind being limited to a couple of keys, then go for the Anglo.....30 button.

 

You'll really struggle if you buy a Duet system unless you know somebody who can teach and advise you.

 

As I said, this is a big generalisation.....I've no doubt that there are Anglo players who can do most of what I suggested for English......and I've seen loads of English systems playing for Morris....but for anybody new to the instrument, then I feel that they are pretty good guidelines.

 

Oh......and don't buy a cheap Hohner instrument. It will last just long enough for you to fall in love with concertinas and then you'll have to buy another. If you buy cheap instruments, you'll end up buying two.

 

All the best,

Phil

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............Good idea. You could call it the Concertina FAQ.

Chris

 

Apologize for an oversight Chris. It is also one of the ones I referred to when I was looking in the beginning. Its a great site for beginners looking for information. I still refer to it occasionally. Don't know how I forgot about it. Very worthwhile.

 

Thanks

Leo

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Don't forget duets. If you are up to it the duet is the most exciting (really!) and versatile of the lot. You probably need some musical experience to wrestle with one successfully.

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One thing I think would be worthwhile to do is to listen to some recordings of people playing the different instruments in different styles. There are plenty of good ones around. Likely you can find sound clips of many of them as album samples on sites that well the recordings. All of the concertinas people have mentioned are more versatile than they sound. Some are "better" than others for different uses, but in the right hands and with some creativity in style can sound great. I'd say find people who are playing the kind of thing you like and see what they are doing it on.

 

People have been mentioning that anglos are limited to a couple of keys. This is not really accurate. Most 30 button anglos are nearly fully chromatic from close to the lowest note to nearly the highest. It is true that some keys are more difficult to master than others, and (which will be true of all concertinas) due to the Pitching of the instruments range, you may run out of notes for a melody if you start in a key whose first note is only found a third of the way up the instruments range. Many good Irish players play happily in Bb (on C/G anglos ) actually a lovely key. Once you play in a key for a while, it becomes second nature. Keys you don't often play in are the hard ones. If you have a singing range that leads you to a key that is in a poor range on one anglo, you may be able to find one tuned in a key pair that allows a simpler fingering for your favored key. In Ireland, Bb/F concertinas are the choice for playing in "C" sessions where the C/G is favored for Sessions where the tunes fit instruments with a low D as their bottom note, and the tunes are usually in G, D and A. F and Bb ( and all the relative minors and modal varialtions of these are also pretty simple to play in, and just because the rows are in specific keys doesn't mean that those keys are even the easiest to play in well! On a 20 button Anglo they are much more restricted, but not a 30.

 

The English or Duet wins out on simplicity of finding all the notes in any direction, but these instruments design actually can make dynamic punctuation and rythm which is natural on an Anglo more difficult to adequately express. This isn't such an issue for vocal accompaniment, but for lively dance music, it is a good bit more of an issue. Anglo bellows are designed for it, English bellows are not.

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