Learning A New System "by Ear"

[PeterT]

Avid readers of the Forum will have noted that I acquired a Jeffries Duet a month ago , and have had an interesting time since. This is the first time in over fifteen years that I have attempted to tackle a new keyboard layout, and wondered whether Forum members who are learning a first, or subsequent, concertina system, "by ear", might wish to post any hints and tips on this thread.

 

 

I'll kick off with the following points:

 

Firstly, it does help to know which notes relate to which buttons on any keyboard, to avoid searching around for the one which "sounds right" when playing a scale. A keyboard layout was of immense help in the first week or so.

 

Secondly, assuming that you are coming to the concertina with a store of tunes which you want to play on the instrument (i.e. you have played another instrument previously, or are a singer), you have some tunes locked in your brain, and just need to work them onto the concertina keyboard.

 

My observations, so far, are as follows:

 

I'm using a few, fairly basic tunes, which I can play quite happily on the Anglo (might be session tunes, but really anything which you know well), and probably the same tunes which I used, or still use, on Maccann Duet and English. This way, I can monitor progress on the Jeffries Duet versus the other systems, see whether I'm learning slowly, or more quickly, and also how the music actually sounds on the Jeffries Duet.

 

I'm also playing around with a few tunes which I don't really know at all, but seem to have a few memorable bars which I can use as practice, to learn my way around the keyboard (to optimise fingering) rather than stumble my way through complete tunes.

 

I'm logging, on a Word document, the tunes which I have attempted, so that I can re-visit them at a later date. This should, eventually, tell me that some of the tunes are becoming easier to play. Later still, some of these tunes will appear, in bold, on my Word document, when I feel confident that they can make it into my Jeffries Duet repertoire.

 

So, one month on, I'm happy with progress. I've been playing instruments long enough to know that the "learning curve" is not smooth, but a series of step changes. A seemingly small discovery can unlock more than one door.

 

Regards,

Peter.

[Paul Woloschuk]

Hi Peter,

I'm not qualified to suggest the best method of learning the Jeffries duet as I too am still learning the system. But I also play 'by ear' having played for Morris for a few years, thereby becoming used to playing in G. I learned by practising first with one familiar tune, then moving onto another having mastered the first - I find this works well for me.

 

But it was after attending the Swaledale Squeeze a few months ago that I decided that...

1) I must learn to play in keys other than G.

2) I must develop my left hand technique.

 

The first point is being addressed by playing those same familar tunes in D & C, the second point is being addressed by practicing scales from the right side across to left and vice versa. This encourages me to play basic runs of notes on the left hand rather than repetitive chord patterns.

 

Not particularly useful tips I know, but I felt I should reply with some words of encouragement as one J D player to another!

 

Paul

Edited July 9, 2006 by wolosp

[PeterT]

Not particularly useful tips I know, but I felt I should reply with some words of encouragement as one J D player to another!

Hi Paul,

 

Thanks. I may never class myself as a Jeffries Duet player, but at least I have "captured" one, and will attempt to understand how the system works. Who knows, any tips might also transfer across to other keyboards.

 

Regards,

Peter.

[stevetwilliams]

Hi Peter,

I also acquired a Jeffries Duet some time ago ( my normal box is an Anglo). I pick it up periodically to see if I can finally make it work for me. Small progress as you can imagine - my current biggest stumbling block being my ingrained habit of changing bellows direction every few notes rather than allowing the notes to flow until a suitable passage ends and then changing direction.

Any tips on how to get out of this habit would be helpful.

 

Steve

[PeterT]

Hi Steve,

 

Are you a "native" of Aberdeen? I was up in Peterhead during 1991/4.

 

The Anglo/Jeffries Duet dilema is an interesting one. I spent a couple of weeks "playing" only the JD, then went back to the Anglo and had a panic attack (i.e. forgetting to change bellows direction).

 

So, my approach is to keep playing Anglo, on existing plus some new material (dance tunes etc.), since it will always be my main instrument. Meanwhile, I am looking to develop a new repertoire which better suits the JD. This is mainly slow tunes/melodies which would probably work on the Anglo, but actually sound better on the Duet. I'm using a similar approach on English and Maccann Duet.

 

I'm hoping to partition my brain so that I can build up a system/tune relationship which I can then work on until I'm able to pick up any system without getting confused. Only at this point will I consider seeing whether Anglo tunes will successfully become Jeffries Duet tunes.

 

I was working on the JD last week, whilst listening to the tennis. Yes, I made mistakes but I've found that I can learn better in this more relaxed mode.

 

Hope that this is of some use.

 

Regards,

Peter.

[stevetwilliams]

Hi Steve,

 

Are you a "native" of Aberdeen? I was up in Peterhead during 1991/4.

 

So, my approach is to keep playing Anglo, on existing plus some new material (dance tunes etc.), since it will always be my main instrument. Meanwhile, I am looking to develop a new repertoire which better suits the JD. This is mainly slow tunes/melodies which would probably work on the Anglo, but actually sound better on the Duet. I'm using a similar approach on English and Maccann Duet.

 

Hi Peter,

You only get to be a 'native' of Aberdeen after a minimum of two generations and then only on sufference ! They've had to close ranks because of the influx of transatlantic and European 'On yer bikes'. My meagre ten years here makes me barely a newcomer. Also the Liverpool Welsh ancestry may just preclude my ever gaining newcomer status.

 

Do I read the above correctly - you currently play Anglo and English and are learning both Jeffries and Macann Duet layouts ? If so forget my query - you have more than enough on your plate. I look forward to hearing any other points that help you to crack the Jeffries, however.

 

regards Steve

[PeterT]

Do I read the above correctly - you currently play Anglo and English and are learning both Jeffries and Macann Duet layouts ? If so forget my query - you have more than enough on your plate. I look forward to hearing any other points that help you to crack the Jeffries, however.

Hi Steve,

 

I really only play the Anglo to any great standard, but have on-going projects to see what I can do both with English and Maccann Duets (both of which I have used during paid bookings, but seem to recall wearing brown trousers "just in case"). Latest projects are the Jeffries Duet and Clarsach (for those not in the know, it has strings, not buttons).

 

Another Forum member (whose views I respect) has suggested that I should spend less time on the computer keyboard, and more time on the concertina keyboards. I do agree, but tend to be chatty by nature. Long-term goal is to be better on all four systems.

 

Regards,

Peter.

[PeterT]

So, one month on, I'm happy with progress. I've been playing instruments long enough to know that the "learning curve" is not smooth, but a series of step changes. A seemingly small discovery can unlock more than one door.

I've just discovered one of those step changes.

 

Looking for new material, I raided my late father's CD collection. One CD had the piece "Love is Blue" ("L'amour est Bleu"). Thinking that I recognised the title, I played the track. Later, having wheeled out the English, I thought that I would try to "play along". I was amazed how easy it seemed, and spent ten minutes working it up with just single line melody (I'll have to do the same tomorrow, to remember it). So, when my musical partner and his wife come around in two weeks, he'll be playing keyboard on this track. As he doesn't visit this Forum, he won't know about it until the night, so it will be a nice surprise. We are playing in public later that evening (relaxed, low-key performance), so if it goes well, it might get played live the same night!

 

I then wondered whether it would fit reasonably well on the Jeffries Duet, so had a try. Well, it came out in a different key, but was actually quite easy.

 

Please don't ask which key (I'm a musician, not a scholar) but the start note is G (the green octave), on Nick's attached keyboard layout.

 

So, potentially one new tune which I can use on two instruments.

 

[BruceB]

Peter,

Four systems? I should stop whining about trying to learn two.

 

Doesn't the JD have some connection to the anglo? Perhaps it's the note layout that's loosely based on it. Providing it's true that the two are related, is this an advantage or disadvantage for you when moving back & forth from one to the other? Did it cause problems?

 

The reason I ask is that I've been slowly learning crane duet to go along with english. To me, the crane is what would result if you took the english system and tried to rationalize it into a duet. Even with the fundamental difference that exists between the english (alternating hands when moving up a scale) and duet (scale all in one hand), the "feel" of an english and crane is much alike for me. One obvious simularity is how the key of "C" move up the middle of the keyboard, with the accidentals all in the two outside rows. The finger patterns that result from the layouts feel much alike to me.

 

 

This at first caused lots of trouble for me when moving from one system to the other, but oddly, only when playing the crane first, and then picking up the english. I know the english far better, but for the first couple of minutes I'd fumble around and "try" to play the melody with my right hand. It was bad enough where it made me want to give up the crane. The opposite didn't occur, it was no problem to go from english to crane, my brain accepted right away that the melody was just in my right hand. This problem is finally gone. I noticed when I started playing the crane again (I had put it aside for a few months) that I could switch between the two effortlessly.

 

The reason I know it's the crane system that caused the problem, not duet systems in general is because I had a Chidley Maccann several years ago and it didn't cause this problem. The feel of a Maccann and the way my brain maps the buttons is so different from the english that I thought of them as (mostly) unrelated instruments. I know some people consider the maccann keyboard what you'd get if you folded the english keyboard into one hand to make a duet, and I can clearly see why they say this, but for me the organizing logic, the patterns that result, are unrelated when actually trying to play them.

 

Whew! Does this make sense?

 

bruce boysen

[JimLucas]

[between the Crane and the English] the finger patterns that result from the layouts feel much alike to me.

...

I had a Chidley Maccann several years ago and it didn't cause this problem. The feel of a Maccann and the way my brain maps the buttons is so different from the english that I thought of them as (mostly) unrelated instruments.

...

 

Does this make sense?

It makes perfect sense. The types of patterns and relationships the human brain recognizes patterns aren't hard-wired, they're learned. They can seem completely arbitrary (e.g., the past tense of "run" is "ran", not "runned"), and they can be radically different from person to person, because their learning experiences have differed. I play both English and Crane, but I've never experienced the problem you describe. Then again, while I can intellectually recognize the "similarity" between the two that you describe, I don't "feel" them to be at all similar, but completely independent.

 

I know the english far better, but for the first couple of minutes I'd fumble around and "try" to play the melody with my right hand. It was bad enough where it made me want to give up the crane. The opposite didn't occur, it was no problem to go from english to crane, my brain accepted right away that the melody was just in my right hand.

Did you play other instruments before the concertina -- e.g., piano -- that would have taught you to expect the melody to be all in your right hand?

 

My own difficulty with the duets in general is lack of an "innate" chord sense. I have no real background in piano, guitar, or other instruments that use chording; my experience prior to the concertina was mainly with singing and wind instruments (trumpet, whistle, etc.), none of which can produce chords. So I didn't learn to feel chords, and I'm now gradually learning a chord "sense", but it takes time and experience.

 

Meanwhile, your description of your difficulty disppearing during a hiatus also makes sense. Though it's not something one can depend on, it does appear that the brain is sometimes capable of continuing learning below the conscious level even in the absence of physical practice. It's something I've experienced myself, e.g., suddenly discovering that I can play a piece that I had previously abandoned because of having difficulty with it.

[PeterT]

This at first caused lots of trouble for me when moving from one system to the other, but oddly, only when playing the crane first, and then picking up the english. I know the english far better, but for the first couple of minutes I'd fumble around and "try" to play the melody with my right hand. It was bad enough where it made me want to give up the crane. The opposite didn't occur, it was no problem to go from english to crane, my brain accepted right away that the melody was just in my right hand. This problem is finally gone. I noticed when I started playing the crane again (I had put it aside for a few months) that I could switch between the two effortlessly.

Hi Bruce,

 

I think the key to being able to play any system is to be able to pick it up and play without thinking about it. As Jim has suggested, the sub-consious has something to do with this.

 

Now, in all honesty, I can only do this with the Anglo, but by "learning" on other systems in rotation (English/Maccann/Jeffries Duet and also my Clarsach), I find that I can put them down for a few weeks (or even months) without going backwards significantly. So, for me, once something is learnt, it generally does not get lost, only a bit rusty.

 

So, my present optimum practice pairing is English/Jeffries Duet. I am actually making faster progress on the English, but I have dabbled on this system for 15+ years, so it's really not surprising.

 

Yes, the Jeffries Duet (in C) is related to the Anglo keyboard. After a few initial difficulties, I now only have a problem if pairing the Jeffries Duet/Jeffries B'/F Anglo for practice. As I play by ear, I find myself trying to play the Duet in B' when I switch!!!!

 

Regards,

Peter.

[BruceB]

As far as other instruments I've played, it would be mostly simple system flute and some guitar a very long time ago and a little bit of uke. None of these are melody in the right hand, chords in the left instruments, but the 6 hole simple system flute is pretty much low notes in one hand, high in the other for each octave.

 

I've been working on some of the same tunes on both english and crane. I'm trying to get a jig from Tim Collins Dancing On Silver, Kit O'Mahony's, to sound ok. It's *so* much easier to do this on english. It's so agile melodically and Itrad ornaments fall naturally on the keyboard. At every point in the tune where you might want to add an ornament there is such a wealth of choices that the hard part is picking what to do. So far, (and I've worked on this tune more on crane) it's still difficult to just play the basic tune with any speed and smoothness. Part of it is I'm much better on english, but it's also the systems. It's always going to be a lot more difficult to play Itrad on a crane. At this point I'm not even sure it's possible to play it well on the crane. I've never heard anyone play Itrad well on any duet system. Has anyone?

 

When playing anything with lots of harmony it's already much easier for me to do it on a crane. I've spent a lot of time learning a bunch of tunes from Dancing With Ma Baby on english, and just playing around a little bit with them on crane is an eye opener. Right away they seem too simple and easy. I love english, and for fast melody like Itrad it can effortlessly play circles around any duet system, but you give up so much to get it. As soon as you add lots of harmony a duet system returns the favor and effortlessly plays circles around an english. At least that's how it is for me. They both do very well what they were designed to do.

 

Long story, but I have a new Tedrow anglo. I've played around with it for just a bit these past few weeks. I could adapt fairly easily to it's push-pull nature, but I want to tear out the notes and put them in a nice, logical, rational pattern. I understand how they came to be where they are, but wouldn't it have been so much better to start over and do it from scratch? With the hayden, crane and english systems, a thirty second explanation is all it takes to be able to understand the keyboard. I find this very attractive and appealing. I'm strongly drawn to these three systems for this reason. The funny thing is, once you know where the notes all live it probably doesn't make that much difference. Must be me.

 

bruce boysen

[PeterT]

Long story, but I have a new Tedrow anglo. I've played around with it for just a bit these past few weeks. I could adapt fairly easily to it's push-pull nature, but I want to tear out the notes and put them in a nice, logical, rational pattern. I understand how they came to be where they are, but wouldn't it have been so much better to start over and do it from scratch? With the hayden, crane and english systems, a thirty second explanation is all it takes to be able to understand the keyboard. I find this very attractive and appealing. I'm strongly drawn to these three systems for this reason. The funny thing is, once you know where the notes all live it probably doesn't make that much difference. Must be me.

Hi Bruce,

 

I think that you've now discovered the joy of playing the Anglo! Yes, leave the notes where they are, and accept that the instrument has certain limitations, then try to push out the boundaries. Even after 20+ years, there are still things which I can't do (yet) on the Anglo.

 

Regards,

Peter.

[m3838]

It takes alot of time to develop a style.

Then you hear someone on the Anglo with style and think "Oh, how can I do this?"

Then you hear someone on the Duet with style and think the same.

Etc.

As for the circles around each other - I have trouble with the statement.

There is no such thing, except only in very beginning. Then you realize what was easy at first turned into a limitation you have to work around, and you start longing for other systems.

Or come up with the style.

You know it yourself, of course.

 

P.S.

Examples:

Mm, Anglo can do fast changes of thick chords, very fast. Very easy octaves. And if your Anglo is good, you can produce very interesting push/pull effect, when you play two notes in one direction, but with slight jerk of bellows in the opposite, and have bag-pipe style effect. And it's lightweight, which helps.

English can do correct chords iin all inversions, bellow shake, is chromatic throughout the range, easy to read and very fast to play. One is forced to play guitar-like arrangements, wbich gives style. And it's still lightweight.

Duet can play Oom-pa and melody/harmony, straight arrangements from score, or sound like two instruments. But it's heavy or range is limited. Low overpowering right is an issue as well - I bet it takes more time to master too. So by the time you play "circles" with style on the English, you'd be still a student on Duet.

 

P.P.S.

But I agree with you, Anglo is the way it is not due to any science, but to haphazard development of a tradition.

It can be arranged in say,

G row C row G# row Bellows G# row C row G row

The benefit could be more smooth chromatic runs, untangleing of fingers for use of accidentals, etc.

 

Enlish can be arranged upside down, or left-side right

Duet can be arranged with left-trebble, right-bass, and upside down.

 

Whatever.

[PeterT]

I look forward to hearing any other points that help you to crack the Jeffries, however.

Hi Steve,

 

Did you have your Jeffries Duet at Witney? I was trying to work out whose it was in Tim Laycock's Duet class.

 

After Marcus asked how I was progressing on the Jeffries Duet, I thought that I'd better find out, since I've hardly touched it in the last six weeks. The good news is that I don't seem to have gone very far backwards, so I've obviously remembered the basic keyboard layout. I think that this bodes well for future progress. I said to Marcus that I'd have two or three tunes up to playing standard by the end of this year, so that's my target.

 

Regards,

Peter.

[PeterT]

So, one month on, I'm happy with progress. I've been playing instruments long enough to know that the "learning curve" is not smooth, but a series of step changes. A seemingly small discovery can unlock more than one door.

To avoid a duplicated posting; see my latest "discovery":

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...amp;#entry46516

 

Some nice chords on the Jeffries Duet.

 

Regards,

Peter.

[Trilby]

I am not sure I am experienced enough to offer any tips, especially about a system of which I know nothing but I do have a view in that I am 6 months into learning EC.

I came from learning classical guitar as a teenager and then onto other guitars. I found playing by ear very difficult as I felt tied to the "dots". A friend suggested that I hum along when playing single note lines then to hum two or three note phrases then try to repeat them on the guitar. The idea being to be able to extend the length and complexity.

I found this of some help but still felt hamstrung by the rigid scale structure that had been ingrained.

 

When I came to learning th EC i have tried this and it seems to be much more effective when coming to a totally new system where both my head and fingers are learning. I don't know if this is of any help.

 

Regards

 

Trilby

[PeterT]

I came from learning classical guitar as a teenager and then onto other guitars. I found playing by ear very difficult as I felt tied to the "dots". A friend suggested that I hum along when playing single note lines then to hum two or three note phrases then try to repeat them on the guitar. The idea being to be able to extend the length and complexity.

Hi Trilby,

 

This kind of method works quite well, when learning to play "by ear". If I can hum, or whistle, a tune, then I can eventually work out where all the notes are, on the concertina.

 

I tried this approach, last night, on the Jeffries Duet, using Chrstmas Carols. With about two exceptions, no problem, except that they all came out in the key of C. However, this is a "building block", and will enable me to try some of these tunes in different keys.

 

I remembered that I tried this approach when initially learning to play the Anglo. It enabled me to "hear" where all the notes were on the instrument. The one disadvantage is that if you don't use a particular key on the instrument, then you possibly don't remember the sounds which it produces.

 

The "from music" approach is totally different. At Witney, Dave Townsend recommended learning the keyboard thoroughly, enabling the player to be able to pick up the instrument and know exactly which key to press, in order to play what was written on the music stave.

 

I guess that in an ideal world, you should be able to do both of the above.

 

Regards,

Peter.