Woody Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 There has been discussion in the thread More Quality Concertina Makers Required about how to increase the numbers of quality Concertina makers. In the thread English Country Music Weekend (ecmw), A superb musical weekend there has been discussion regarding an apparent lack of young Concertina players and the initiative that the WCCP is involved in bringing Concertinas into schools. It seemed to me that there's a bit of cross-over here resulting form the combination of these two issues so I've opened a new topic. Maybe the way to increase the number of young Concertina players is for the ICA or other organisations to work to make available beginner boxes and tuition for schools. If this succeeded, there would be more Concertina players, hence more demand and hopefully an increase either in the number of Makers or their output. - W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Gawley Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Around here (Northeast England) there seems to be a young generation of concertina players already. Not sure that the ICA are best placed to be doing this (said without consulting anybody; I am on the committee but am responding instantly). Folkworks are doing something like what you suggest and the WCCP, closer to you, have a similar scheme. How many new concertina players do we want? Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter Laban Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 This sort of discussion comes up every now and again, about concertinas, tinwhistles and what have you. I am not sure making instruments available for schools will automatically increase the popularity of an instrument. It surely doesn't do the job for the recorder in countries where that instrument is part of the school curriculum. It's a horse and cart issue. In Ireland Irish music is riding a wave of popularity and in recent years the cocnertina, for ease of playing, has really picked up. The result: scores of young concertinaplayers raring tot go. My son goes to a scholl with a pupulation of around 50. At one point there were 9 concertinaplayers among those. Noel Hill teaches a two weekly class during the winter, in ennis this attacts around 100 learners. Nearly all under 14s. And this in an area where concertina tutors are working away all around. If you manage to get music suitable for the concertina accepted by young musicians, you'll be in business. Not by just making instruments available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterT Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 How many new concertina players do we want? Roger Personally, I would like to say "Too many" (a nice problem to have), but I guess that this will not happen, at least not short-term. I don't know whether a significant uplift would have the makers rubbing their hands (more instruments x small margin) or running off screaming. It will be interesting to see what happens with regional initiatives. Regards, Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 (edited) If you manage to get music suitable for the concertina accepted by young musicians, you'll be in business. Not by just making instruments available. There's the rub. The Irish have done an admirable job. Other countries....I dunno. As to recorders, those plastic tooters should all be done away with. My three children had to put up with them and I had to go to the concerts! I'm sure there lies the foundation of the ruination of my dreams for a family band, for at its mention they bring up the dreaded recorder and run the other way . Edited June 26, 2006 by Mark Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 As to recorders, those plastic tooters should all be done away with. Don't blame the instrument, Marc. (Well, maybe some of the cheap brands deserve it. ) Almost certainly it's the way it was "taught" (possibly including the repertoire) that turned your kids off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Almost certainly it's the way it was "taught" (possibly including the repertoire) that turned your kids off. Absolutely Jim! It bored them to tears. Poor Dominique used to play baroque music on soprano and alto recorder and me darlin's can't even look at her beautiful fruitwood instruments without groaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animaterra Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Some of us are trying, Mark, truly we are....!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Some of us are trying, Mark, truly we are....!! Of that Allison, I have no doubt. Not having had the pleasure of a visit to your classroom, I can only go on the excellent presentation you gave us at the college and the fine work I've seen you do with Animaterra. I'll wager you are adored by those children and their parents. They most likely pick up those "tooters" and play anything you say (you got a room of us run of the mill blokes to sing our heads of at last years NEFFA and managed to make me cry). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Morse Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 there has been discussion regarding an apparent lack of young Concertina players and the initiative that the WCCP is involved in bringing Concertinas into schools.What's the WCCP?Maybe the way to increase the number of young Concertina players is for the ICA or other organisations to work to make available beginner boxes and tuition for schools. If this succeeded, there would be more Concertina players, hence more demand and hopefully an increase either in the number of Makers or their output.We worked with Alistair Anderson years ago to develop a school grade concertina but just couldn't the price down to the point they could afford (though we did get quite close!). It was a double-pronged problem. Schools can't afford much and the boxes have to be quite responsive and extremely durable. We're not talking "beginner boxes". His stash of mid-range Lachenals was so beat that they were unable to repair them fast enough to keep enough in circulation - and had to make up the difference with Stagis.... which died even quicker. We'd love to give it a shot again with the production knowlege gained from having several hundred more boxes under our belts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 What's the WCCP? West Country Concertina Players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_boveri Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Around here (Northeast England) there seems to be a young generation of concertina players already. Not sure that the ICA are best placed to be doing this (said without consulting anybody; I am on the committee but am responding instantly). Folkworks are doing something like what you suggest and the WCCP, closer to you, have a similar scheme. How many new concertina players do we want? Roger i think thats the key, the follow up. when children learn recorders, they learn it for one year (at least where i live), and the music is no fun. as for band and orchestra, it isnt until well into high school that most students get devoted to music, never mind practicing. if only the music was more fun, then more people would play after high school. however, disillusioned classical players are the perfect people to convert to concertina players, so perhaps its not all bad . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Almost certainly it's the way it was "taught" (possibly including the repertoire) that turned your kids off. Absolutely Jim! It bored them to tears. Poor Dominique used to play baroque music on soprano and alto recorder and me darlin's can't even look at her beautiful fruitwood instruments without groaning. Some of us are trying, Mark, truly we are....!! Well, there can be considerable differences in the way things are taught. I know that many American elementary schools today have "music teachers", whose only job is to teach music. One teacher will be fully employed by teaching many classes -- possibly in several schools within a district, -- each a few hours/week. When/where I went to school, each class had only a single teacher, one person who taught all subjects. She (it was always a "she" back then) was expected to teach music in addition to reading, history, and mathematics, but she herself didn't seem to have any musical training beyond 3rd-grade capability, and unlike the other subjects, there were no course books to follow. Oh, there were "songsters" -- one for each grade, -- but no method books for learning either how to make or how to understand music. We were told to sing, but we weren't told how. Imagine having your history teacher -- with no experience and possibly even no interest -- teaching sports. Now imagine that the only sport being taught -- and required for everyone -- is croquet. Would it be surprising if the students developed a distaste for all official "sports", but were attracted to gothic, "heavy metal" alternative "sports", such as Morris Dancing?!! Now if Volleyball.net or the IVA wanted to increase the popularity of volleyball in such a circumstance, do you think that simply providing schools with nets and balls would do the trick? Even getting volleyball to replace croquet in the curriculum, but with no other change? Where am I heading with these rambling thoughts? Well, if we want to get students interested in the concertina, I think we have to start by getting their teachers interested. If they themselves don't become good enough at the instrument to teach and to inspire the students, they at least have to be openly appreciative of outside teachers who are. How do we do that? Ah, now there's a topic for another long discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Maybe the way to increase the number of young Concertina players is for the ICA or other organisations to work to make available beginner boxes and tuition for schools. Kids tend to be resistant to things that are required of them, especially if the requirement comes from an authority (school board or teacher) that itself isn't really enthusiastic. Kids will be much more receptive if they see some personal benefit. (So will adults.) Maybe schools aren't the best place to start. Maybe we should be trying to interest scout troops. A concertina is just as versatile as a guitar for accompanying campfire songs, and certainly a lot easier to carry on a camping trip. Of course, not all young people are involved in scouts, but if some learn to play concertina at campfires, I can bet at least a few of those will discover on their own that they can accompany their own popular music, too. And they'll do it for their friends who don't go camping, and the idea will spread. Besides, we've already heard that forced teaching in schools turns some students against the instruments they're forced to "learn". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterT Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Maybe schools aren't the best place to start. Maybe we should be trying to interest scout troops. A concertina is just as versatile as a guitar for accompanying campfire songs, and certainly a lot easier to carry on a camping trip. Good suggestion, Jim. The first Morris team that I played for (North Wood) originated from a scout troop. They learned three dances, and performed at a scout concert at the Royal Albert Hall (London). I think it went downhill after that, athough they did manage a few TV appearances before, and after, I played for them. Regards, Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Timson Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 The first Morris team that I played for (North Wood) originated from a scout troop. They learned three dances, and performed at a scout concert at the Royal Albert Hall (London). My first morris side (The Earls of Essex Morris Men - "They're animals" - The Times) started from Woodcraft Folk - think Scouts but without the paramilitary elements. Funny how things turn out ... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidFR Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Would it be surprising if the students developed a distaste for all official "sports", but were attracted to gothic, "heavy metal" alternative "sports", such as Morris Dancing?!! As a long-time dancer of the morris, that is the best reference to morris dancing ever. I will definitely have to share that with my teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animaterra Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I know that many American elementary schools today have "music teachers", whose only job is to teach music. That would be me... We'd love to give it a shot again with the production knowlege gained from having several hundred more boxes under our belts. As soon as you're ready to try, I'm right here ready to pilot the program at my school! Is there a grant writer in the house?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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