Cut Time.

[Alan Caffrey]

Hello all!

So last night I was playing tunes with a guitarist and he pointed out that the time signature of a tune (The banshee, AKA McMahon's reel) was 'cut time'; I have always considered this tune as just a straight reel; how does or should this effect my playing. It did make a differance to his accompaniment.

 

Thanks, Alan.

[JimLucas]

...'cut time' ... how does or should this effect my playing.

There's a wide variety of ideas of when 2/2 (alias "cut time") is the appropriate time signature and what it implies for how the music is played. Maybe there's more agreement in classical music circles (though I'm not sure about that), but in traditional music subtleties of time-signature interpretation of seem to depend not so much on which country the music comes from, or even which town, but which individual is writing it down.

 

I learned that reels should normally be notated in 2/4 and hornpipes in 4/4, but I know that there are others who use the opposite convention. (I can explain the basis for my own convention -- which isn't only my own, -- but I won't take the space here.) Similarly with jigs: I've seen the same tune notated in 6/8, 12/8, and even 3/8. In the convention I learned, those would indicate different stress patterns in the tune, but I hear some people play them all of those three time signatures with identical stress patterns.

 

All of which is a preface to my saying that if you want to know how to play in 2/2 with that guitarist, then ask him. Or find your own way to match your style to his... or to whoever you're playing with. In looking for "McMahon's Reel" on the net, the sites where it's given a time signature of "C|" (cut time) seem to notate all reels in cut time. On the other hand, David Brody's "Fiddler's Fake Book" gives it a 4/4 time signature, but he seems to use 4/4 for every reel.

 

So I conclude that in this case the "cut time" doesn't represent any particular subtlety of the tune. Instead, it represents the habit or convention of the person who wrote it down. Play it however you like... which may be to please your guitarist friend.

[David Barnert]

American answer:

 

I always notate reels in cut time (2/2). It's played exactly as if it were in 2/4, but the copy looks much cleaner because instead of 8th notes and 16th notes, there's quarters and 8ths, ie., fewer flags and beams for the same note values.

 

Now translated into British:

 

I always notate reels in cut time (2/2). It's played exactly as if it were in 2/4, but the copy looks much cleaner because instead of quavers and semiquavers, there's crotchets and quavers, ie., fewer flags and beams for the same note values.

 

In classical music, 2/2, or cut time is usually seen in marches, for the same reason. The beat counts the steps, and using 2/2 rather than 2/4 makes the page visually easier to parse.

[ragtimer]

Generally, cut time means you should play the piece twice as fast as you would expect! Not entirely a joke, read on ...

There's a wide variety of ideas of when 2/2 (alias "cut time") is the appropriate time signature and what it implies for how the music is played.

 

I learned that reels should normally be notated in 2/4 and hornpipes in 4/4, but I know that there are others who use the opposite convention.

There are indeed more or less standard conventions for musical generes and time signatures. Piano ragtime, e.g., is usually written in 2/4 time, each measure having two "boom-chucks" or "oom-pahs" with each boom and chuck being one 8th note (quaver). Early rag writers used 4/4, with quarter notes, but by the time Scott Joplin was a household name, the 2/4 convention was pretty firm.

 

I ran afoul of one convention when I arranged my tune "City of Ships" for NESI 2004 concertina orchestra. For some reason, I originally notated it in 6/8 time, although it's really more of a waltz in 3/4 time. When I first sent my arrangement to Rich Morse, he asked "Is it really that fast?" since 6/8 is the standard for Jigs, and we all know how fast those go! I had to explain to him and later the orchestra playes that no, one of my 6/8 bars was really just two bars of 3/4 joined together, and the piece was half as fast as people feared.

 

Live and learn.

 

Meanwhile, those of us who learn tunes out of books and not from other players, have to guess from the genre just how fast they should go. My personal rule for jigs and reels is "if I can hit all the notes, I need to go faster!" --Mike K.

Edited May 26, 2006 by ragtimer

[lildogturpy]

Here to show my ignorance. I thought C| meant "common" time (4/4) rather than "cut" time (2/2). The reels I've found from JC's ABC tunefinder that have a time signature of C| have 4 beats in the bar.

[JimLucas]

Here to show my ignorance. I thought C| meant "common" time (4/4) rather than "cut" time (2/2). The reels I've found from JC's ABC tunefinder that have a time signature of C| have 4 beats in the bar.

In standard (non-abc) music notation, "common" time (4/4) is represented by a "C", and "cut" time (2/2), by a (large) "C" with a vertical bar through it. Thus I understood the combination "C|" in abc to stand for latter, since it's not possible to put the line on top of the captial "C". I would expect "common" time to be represented just by a "C", without the following "|". (You can see I'm not an abc expert.)

 

4/4 has four quarter-note beats to the bar, while 2/2 has two half-note beats. But each half note is equal to two quarter notes, so 2/2 also has four quarter notes to the bar, but it should only have two beats (stresses), while 4/4 should have four.

[Clive Thorne]

In classical music, 2/2, or cut time is usually seen in marches, ...

 

My trumpet teacher generally refers to 2/2 as march time. I'd never heard of 'cut time' until I read this thread.

 

Clive.

[JimLucas]

In classical music, 2/2, or cut time is usually seen in marches, ...

My trumpet teacher generally refers to 2/2 as march time. I'd never heard of 'cut time' until I read this thread.

And yet the first web site where I found all the reels notated in 2/2, the marches were notated in 2/4 -- except those that were in 6/8, -- and I didn'tnotice any in 2/2. Whoever maintains that collection must have had a different music teacher.

[David Barnert]

Here to show my ignorance. I thought C| meant "common" time (4/4) rather than "cut" time (2/2). The reels I've found from JC's ABC tunefinder that have a time signature of C| have 4 beats in the bar.

There would be no way to tell if they have two or four beats. The notation would be the same except for the time signature (C or C|). They both have measure with four quarters (crochets), but in C| each crochet gets only half a beat.

(Currently visiting Glasgow)

(Currently visiting Chicago)

[Clive Thorne]

Here to show my ignorance. I thought C| meant "common" time (4/4) rather than "cut" time (2/2). The reels I've found from JC's ABC tunefinder that have a time signature of C| have 4 beats in the bar.

There would be no way to tell if they have two or four beats. The notation would be the same except for the time signature (C or C|). They both have measure with four quarters (crochets), but in C| each crochet gets only half a beat.

(Currently visiting Glasgow)

(Currently visiting Chicago)

 

 

I am very much a beginner in music theory etc, but wouldn't the 2/2 tend to have an equal emphasis on the first and third crotchets, whereas the the 4/4 would have the main empahsis on the first crotchet and less emphasis on the third crochet?

 

Clive

[David Barnert]

Here to show my ignorance. I thought C| meant "common" time (4/4) rather than "cut" time (2/2). The reels I've found from JC's ABC tunefinder that have a time signature of C| have 4 beats in the bar.

There would be no way to tell if they have two or four beats. The notation would be the same except for the time signature (C or C|). They both have measure with four quarters (crochets), but in C| each crochet gets only half a beat.

I am very much a beginner in music theory etc, but wouldn't the 2/2 tend to have an equal emphasis on the first and third crotchets, whereas the the 4/4 would have the main empahsis on the first crotchet and less emphasis on the third crochet?

Yes, but I think you are misunderstanding the question I was answering.

 

We're talking about notation as it appears on paper or computer screen, not how it sounds or is played. Robin said he had seen notation with a time signature that implied 2/2 but seemed to have 4 beats to the measure. I replied that 4 beats in 4/4 looks on paper just like 2 beats in 2/2. I agree they are played differently, but that's not what the question was.

[Clive Thorne]

Here to show my ignorance. I thought C| meant "common" time (4/4) rather than "cut" time (2/2). The reels I've found from JC's ABC tunefinder that have a time signature of C| have 4 beats in the bar.

There would be no way to tell if they have two or four beats. The notation would be the same except for the time signature (C or C|). They both have measure with four quarters (crochets), but in C| each crochet gets only half a beat.

I am very much a beginner in music theory etc, but wouldn't the 2/2 tend to have an equal emphasis on the first and third crotchets, whereas the the 4/4 would have the main empahsis on the first crotchet and less emphasis on the third crochet?

Yes, but I think you are misunderstanding the question I was answering.

 

We're talking about notation as it appears on paper or computer screen, not how it sounds or is played. Robin said he had seen notation with a time signature that implied 2/2 but seemed to have 4 beats to the measure. I replied that 4 beats in 4/4 looks on paper just like 2 beats in 2/2. I agree they are played differently, but that's not what the question was.

 

Whoops! My mistake David; Apologies. And here am I been telling my daughter to make sure she reads the questions properly in her forthcoming exams (GCSEs)! And I've probably told her not to start sentences with 'And'.

 

 

Clive.

[David Barnert]

Whoops! My mistake David; Apologies.

No prob. Aplogy accepted. I made a mistake once.