Not Scates Again

[chris]

Hi

I've been looking into Joseph Scates history (as much as is possible on the net i.e. Concertina.net and concertina.com [ by the way thanks to all the people who did the original research]) and in reading what is available It crossed my mind that when Scates gave Jones his first? large order for Anglos, just how much of a contribution Scates may have made to the popularity of Anglos with Irish musicians.

I wonder what would have happened if he only imported English concertinas? (was anyone else importing at that time? )

I also wonder what happened to him after 1866. he seems to have 'progressed' from 'professor of the concertina' (28, Westmoreland Street, thru 'piano and harmonium warehouse (College Green) to 'professor of music' after selling out to Cramer & Co? (15, Westmoreland Street). He seems to have disappeared. Does anyone know any more about him?

chris

[Stephen Chambers]

I've been looking into Joseph Scates history (as much as is possible on the net i.e. Concertina.net and concertina.com [ by the way thanks to all the people who did the original research]) and in reading what is available It crossed my mind that when Scates gave Jones his first? large order for Anglos, just how much of a contribution Scates may have made to the popularity of Anglos with Irish musicians.

I wonder what would have happened if he only imported English concertinas?

It may seem surprising, but I really don't think that those Anglos that Scates sold had any influence on the later use of the concertina by Irish musicians (though I do know an All-Ireland Champion who won her title playing an English of his manufacture!). I'm sure that he got Jones to make them for him simply because they were the latest fashion, the same reason he wrote one of the earliest tutor books for the "improved German concertina", and a cheaper alternative to the English system.

 

(was anyone else importing at that time? )

I can't give you specific names of other importers but yes, cheap German concertinas became freely, and cheaply, available from the 1860s onwards, sold in the likes of hardware shops and suchlike all over the country, rather than from a specialist music shop in Dublin like Scates', and those were the instruments that really established the Irish tradition of tending to play the Anglo (though it was not unusual for people to play whatever they could get their hands on, and Englishes were not unheard of amongst traditional musicians, I've come across a good few instances over the years).

 

Within living memory German concertinas were still much more common here than Anglos, and there are still old players around today who actually prefer them to Anglos!

 

I also wonder what happened to him after 1866. he seems to have 'progressed' from 'professor of the concertina' (28, Westmoreland Street, thru 'piano and harmonium warehouse (College Green) to 'professor of music' after selling out to Cramer & Co? (15, Westmoreland Street). He seems to have disappeared. Does anyone know any more about him?

He returned to England and became a Professor of Music in Brighton. He died there on 19th December 1899.

 

Being familiar with both places, I would suspect that Brighton might have reminded him of Dublin's Monkstown, where he had lived when he was in Ireland.

Edited May 18, 2006 by Stephen Chambers

[chris]

thank you for the comments and info Stephen. I was very suprised to see that he returned to England.

chris

[allan atlas]

CHRIS AND FOLKS: to add a very little -- but possibly interesting -- footnote to the Scates business. . . . . .in his advertisement in the MUSICAL WORLD, vol. xxii/no. 47, for 20 November 1847, Scates notes that he has recently moved to 32 New Bond Street,

 

"where he continues to supply this fashionable and charming instrument, the same u] as patronized by Signor Giulio Regondi for the last two years[/u].". . . . .

 

should we take this to mean that Regondi had switched allegiance, as it were. . . . .had turned his back on Wheatstones as was playing Scates concertinas. . . . . .it would be interesting to check Regondi's activity in the Wheatstone ledgers for 1845-1847. . . . .i certainly can't give figures off the top of my head. . . . . .perhaps there's nothing to be made of it all. . . . . . .don't know...........Allan

[allan atlas]

CHRIS AND FOLKS: to add a very little -- but possibly interesting -- footnote to the Scates business. . . . . .in his advertisement in the MUSICAL WORLD, vol. xxii/no. 47, for 20 November 1847, Scates notes that he has recently moved to 32 New Bond Street,

 

"where he continues to supply this fashionable and charming instrument, the same u] as patronized by Signor Giulio Regondi for the last two years[/u].". . . . .

 

should we take this to mean that Regondi had switched allegiance, as it were. . . . .had turned his back on Wheatstones as was playing Scates concertinas. . . . . .it would be interesting to check Regondi's activity in the Wheatstone ledgers for 1845-1847. . . . .i certainly can't give figures off the top of my head. . . . . .perhaps there's nothing to be made of it all. . . . . . .don't know...........Allan

[allan atlas]

FOLKS: don't know how i ended up quoting myself..............allan

[chris]

Allan

I notice that in 1857? Scates, whilst in Dublin, published a tutor by Regondi-'New Method for the Concertina' also published 'Rudimenti del Concertinista' 1844? (E51 and E52 in R Merris concertina tutors in Concertina.com) so there may have been a tie in.

chris

[allan atlas]

CHRIS: I agree...........allan