Wheatstone? Crabb?

[Daniel Hersh]

It's here, with a Crabb plate on one side and a Wheatstone one on the other. The fretwork looks pretty odd to me, though my experience is limited.

 

Comments? Opinions?

 

Daniel

[m3838]

So that's what bandoneons evolved from...

And I thought it was a penny whistle.

[Laitch]

As an unqualified appraiser, I've identified this as a Stone Crab, and it's a very popular item in S. Florida, USA.

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Forgive me for making a relatively serious, on thread, comment.

 

Interesting example, but I would be surprised if this instrument was produced in the Crabb workshop.

First, it would be very rare, I think, to find a ‘Crabb’ wood top, octagonal 40 key Anglo.

If one was found, then I would expect the endplates (tops) to be cut to a traditional pattern. Even the cheapest wood top ‘Crabb’ 20 Key always had some form of recognisable fretwork, even if that was minimal or machine cut.

One must not assume that all Crabb Anglo concertinas had parallel reed chambers, although in the majority, radial chamber instruments were also made.

Of course without internal pictures or an identity number it is difficult but an indication as to the origin of this concertina would probably be found in the makeup of the keys (buttons), solid or two part, and the action, flat or round section levers.

 

My own opinion, without history, is that this instrument is reminiscent in looks i.e. all black, flat top, of some supplied by Wheatstone, although I do not recall having seen any with this type of end perforation.

40 key Anglos with 8 fold bellows were commonly requested for export to South Africa where they became generically known as: ‘3¾ row, 8 cornered Wheatstones’ irrespective of actual make.

If this Anglo originally went to South Africa and we are aware that some have made instruments there I suppose it is possible that this concertina could be a ‘hybrid rebuild’ by an unknown maker/repairer using parts of irreparable instruments and fitting 'own design' replacement tops hence the use of the two name plates.

The Crabb name plate would not be affixed to a Crabb 'repair' and could only be obtained from an existing instrument. As that plate is one that would normally be fitted to the left side of an instrument it would be interesting to see if an ID number was evident to determine from the records what the donor instrument was.

Apart from early work done for Charles Wheatstone, there has never been any collaboration since, in instrument manufacture between C Wheatstone & Co and Crabb.

 

Geoff Crabb

[Laitch]

No problem, Geoff. Serious is good.

[Daniel Hersh]

Thanks, Geoff! I too wondered if those might be non-original ends, but hadn't known about the South Africa possibility. I've asked the seller to post some interior photos and will post a follow-up message here if that happens.

 

Daniel

 

(...) If this Anglo originally went to South Africa and we are aware that some have made instruments there I suppose it is possible that this concertina could be a ‘hybrid rebuild’ by an unknown maker/repairer using parts of irreparable instruments and fitting 'own design' replacement tops hence the use of the two name plates.

The Crabb name plate would not be affixed to a Crabb 'repair' and could only be obtained from an existing instrument. As that plate is one that would normally be fitted to the left side of an instrument it would be interesting to see if an ID number was evident to determine from the records what the donor instrument was. (...)

Edited May 3, 2006 by Daniel Hersh

[Greg Jowaisas]

I've seen a number of South African concertinas with eight fold bellows, some very nicely done.

 

The riveted bushing on the thumb buttons is very un Wheatstone or Crabb.

 

The fret work desgn could be based on overlapping drillings on a drill press. I don't think any piercing saw work or scroll saw work was done.

 

I hope Daniel gets some additional pictures of the action and reeds. This is all quite mysterious.

 

Greg

[Geoffrey Crabb]

As I haven't killed the topic as is usual, I offer a second comment.

 

 

The riveted bushing on the thumb buttons is very un Wheatstone or Crabb.

 

The fret work desgn could be based on overlapping drillings on a drill press. I don't think any piercing saw work or scroll saw work was done.

 

Greg

 

 

I have assumed from the pictures that this instrument appears to have wood tops but if so, why has it not only rivets indicating the use of separate bushing woods for the thumb key but also the main keyboard? Could this have close fitting black painted metal tops fitted over original wood tops?

 

The irregularity of the perforations suggest to me that perhaps a central hole was drilled for each opening and then roughly shaped with a round file to what we see.

 

Geoff

[Greg Jowaisas]

I have assumed from the pictures that this instrument appears to have wood tops but if so, why has it not only rivets indicating the use of separate bushing woods for the thumb key but also the main keyboard? Could this have close fitting black painted metal tops fitted over original wood tops?

 

The irregularity of the perforations suggest to me that perhaps a central hole was drilled for each opening and then roughly shaped with a round file to what we see.

 

Geoff

 

 

I think Geoff is on to something. Pictures! Pictures! We need pictures!

 

Greg

[Daniel Hersh]

Agreed...but the seller never responded to my message, and the auction is about to close. We'll see if whoever buys it winds up asking about it on c.net later.

 

Daniel

 

I have assumed from the pictures that this instrument appears to have wood tops but if so, why has it not only rivets indicating the use of separate bushing woods for the thumb key but also the main keyboard? Could this have close fitting black painted metal tops fitted over original wood tops?

 

The irregularity of the perforations suggest to me that perhaps a central hole was drilled for each opening and then roughly shaped with a round file to what we see.

 

Geoff

 

 

I think Geoff is on to something. Pictures! Pictures! We need pictures!

 

Greg

[Daniel Hersh]

And it was bought by Chris Algar for 1750 pounds. Perhaps someone can ask him about it in a few weeks.

 

Daniel

 

Agreed...but the seller never responded to my message, and the auction is about to close. We'll see if whoever buys it winds up asking about it on c.net later.

 

Daniel

 

I have assumed from the pictures that this instrument appears to have wood tops but if so, why has it not only rivets indicating the use of separate bushing woods for the thumb key but also the main keyboard? Could this have close fitting black painted metal tops fitted over original wood tops?

 

The irregularity of the perforations suggest to me that perhaps a central hole was drilled for each opening and then roughly shaped with a round file to what we see.

 

Geoff

 

 

I think Geoff is on to something. Pictures! Pictures! We need pictures!

 

Greg