Midi Testpilot

[Johan]

Hi,

 

I've be given the opportunity to act as testpilot for the updated wireless wakker midi anglo.

(A result of some old fashioned networking mechanism, the son of the neighbour's aunt who knew a friend of the niece of his father, who lived next door to this etc... etc... etc... , who knows a anglo concertinaplayer )

I'll get the instrument today and will return it wednesday 19th.

I have reasonably extensive experience with midi itself.

But not in combination with an anglo, yet.

 

So, if someone's curious about this undoubtly fine instrument, now is the time to find out.

 

Johan

[david_boveri]

Hi,

 

I've be given the opportunity to act as testpilot for the updated wireless wakker midi anglo.

(A result of some old fashioned networking mechanism, the son of the neighbour's aunt who knew a friend of the niece of his father, who lived next door to this etc... etc... etc... , who knows a anglo concertinaplayer )

I'll get the instrument today and will return it wednesday 19th.

I have reasonably extensive experience with midi itself.

But not in combination with an anglo, yet.

 

So, if someone's curious about this undoubtly fine instrument, now is the time to find out.

 

Johan

 

sounds great! i got 2 concertinas on order, so i'm not really in the market. however, a concertina that i can practice in silence / hook up for different sounds is really a dream of mine. keep us updated. tell us what neat tricks you can do with it.

 

how does the wireless work? is there a way you can get wireless, internal mic's for the concertina? i wouldnt mind putting a mic in a concertina, but something about those double plugs coming out seems infinitely more annoying than playing between two stationary mic's.

[Johan]

Hi,

 

I've been busy with this Wakker/Thetys midi anglo this morning.

I must say that I had a lot of fun with it, playing piano, churchorgan, choir, trumpet etc.

Hearing the "wrong" sound from underneath my fingers turned my own memory-tunebank competely blank for a while, resulting in new ideas.

The wireless system made it even possible to play the concertina in one side of the house while the sound of whatever what came from the other side!

Skitty, our cat who really hates the concertina, was shocked by seeing me manipulate the damned thing (her qualification) while these vague familiar melodies with strange sounds came through the ceiling.

 

The midi triggering is pretty fast, be it that the triggering of notes with the bellows appeared to be slower than triggering notes with the keys.

It is possible to change the key layout into Jeffries, Wheatstone or even a selfmade layout.

It's possible to fine tune the instrument or shift octaves, but you can't transpose it from a CG to a, for instance GD concertina.

The system itself doesn't produce sound, you need to connect it to a external midi soundmodule or a keyboard. So, the soundquality depends on the quality of the soundmodule.

 

As I stated, I had a lot of fun with it.

Nevertheless, to me, this concertina clearly still is in a development stage.

Their (Wakker&Thetys) goal is to produce a midi instrument that feels and plays like an anglo concertina, according to www.concertinaconnection.com. The instrument I got actually played more like an english concertina with anglo buttons and with practically no functional airvalve in an anglo sense. I actually don't understand why, considering their experience in making widely respected anglo-concertina's. The dynamic variations possible by using the bellows or/and the airvalve are restricted to minor volume changes. It's sounds rather symplistic to me to reduce dynamics to volumechanges.

It doesn't really sound like something realistic. The sound of those electronic organ players skating on a volumepedal to suggest dramatic emotional waves comes into mind.

The little black console with the small buttons with the electronic brain of the system look and feel a lot like those homemade radio's in used cigarboxes the electronic wizzkids at highschool used to make. Not really a milestone in userfriendly commercially available equipment. This counts as well for the information produced by the little display.

To me, the whole system has the appearence of an enthousiast prototype of a promissing idea.

 

Johan

[ragtimer]

I've been busy with this Wakker/Thetys midi anglo this morning.

I must say that I had a lot of fun with it, playing piano, churchorgan, choir, trumpet etc.

Hearing the "wrong" sound from underneath my fingers turned my own memory-tunebank competely blank for a while, resulting in new ideas.

Excellent. I've been having fantasies about playing my Hayden Duet concertina, and having piano, guitar, and organ and fiddle sounds come out. As an electronic keyboard player, I've been amazed at how having a different sound inspires you to play and improvise in the appropriate style to that sound.

 

I'd be reasonably satisfied with no bellows modulation at all (since my Duet is same note pushing or pulling), if I could just plug a headphone into the concertina and practice without bothering others.

The midi triggering is pretty fast, be it that the triggering of notes with the bellows appeared to be slower than triggering notes with the keys.

It is possible to change the key layout into Jeffries, Wheatstone or even a selfmade layout.

It's possible to fine tune the instrument or shift octaves, but you can't transpose it from a CG to a, for instance GD concertina.

That tranposition is a very simple thing to do, which I'd expect the production version to have in their firmware. You could instantly punch up an Eb/Bb or E/B.

The system itself doesn't produce sound, you need to connect it to a external midi soundmodule or a keyboard. So, the soundquality depends on the quality of the soundmodule.

This is normal for any "MIDI Controller" instrument. However, you can probably set the sound module to transpose for you, to get a G/D, etc.

 

I'd really like to have at least a simple built-in tone generator, for practice.

The dynamic variations possible by using the bellows or/and the airvalve are restricted to minor volume changes. It's sounds rather symplistic to me to reduce dynamics to volume changes.

It doesn't really sound like something realistic. The sound of those electronic organ players skating on a volume pedal to suggest dramatic emotional waves comes into mind.

I understand. I once owned a very cheap MIDI saxophone that responded to your breath pressure, but that only affected the initial attack volume of each note -- you could not swell the note in hte middle.

Part of this is a limitation of MIDI itself, although there is provision for "MIDI Volume" (loudness only), plus "channel aftertouch" which allows a keyboard player to "bend" notes sharp as with a clavichord. The aftertouch can alternately be interpreted by the tone module as brighter sound, or vibrato, or whateveer its programming allows.

 

It's possible that the prototype concertina's "black box" is delivering these signals, but your tone module or keyboard is not set up to process them. Something to ask the manufacturer about.

To me, the whole system has the appearence of an enthousiast prototype of a promissing idea.

Johan

Very promising. For many years now there have been very fine "wind controllers" (professional versions of the saxophone, etc.) and MIDI guitars, which work wonders with the proper tone boxes.

 

Say, do you ever hear the big Dutch hand-cranked street organs? I have a small version, into which I have built my own MIDI interface, so I can play from a PC or a Palm. --Mike K.

[Johan]

I'd be reasonably satisfied with no bellows modulation at all (since my Duet is same note pushing or pulling), if I could just plug a headphone into the concertina and practice without bothering others.

 

The Wakker/Thetys AMC30 is just a midicontroller, there's no soundmodule included. I understood from the guy from Thetys that they probably end up with someting like that in the future.

 

That tranposition is a very simple thing to do, which I'd expect the production version to have in their firmware. You could instantly punch up an Eb/Bb or E/B.

 

It's possible that the prototype concertina's "black box" is delivering these signals, but your tone module or keyboard is not set up to process them. Something to ask the manufacturer about.

 

As did understand it, they build the firmware from scratch. The transposing is not yet included. But most soundmodules offer that possibility themselves. The system itself transmits limited mididata.

 

Here some example of the midi concertina

The Utrecht MIDI Choir conducted by Wakker AMC30 , singing; "De valse Zeeman"

 

Say, do you ever hear the big Dutch hand-cranked street organs? I have a small version, into which I have built my own MIDI interface, so I can play from a PC or a Palm. --Mike K.

 

Well, I hear those organs every day, the illustrious Budding family has this little garage 20 meters from here in which they stall their big organs. Every evening when they return their organs they retune them on the street playing the seasonbound repertiore.

So, I even don't have to turn on my PC

 

Johan

[Chris Timson]

As did understand it, they build the firmware from scratch. The transposing is not yet included. But most soundmodules offer that possibility themselves. The system itself transmits limited mididata.

Well, yes, but that's not the same as being able to switch from Jeffries G/D layout to Wheatstone C/G layout, which is how I lke things. My Whiteley/Lachenal MIDI anglo can do that, and Bb/F as well! I gather Roy does make versions of his MIDI anglo with an onboard General MIDI module, though I wasn't interested in that since the sound possible from a full size sound module goes way beyond what seems to be available to GM.

 

Chris

[Spectacled Warbler]

if I could just plug a headphone into the concertina and practice without bothering others.

 

I'd really like to have at least a simple built-in tone generator, for practice.

 

I've got a midi English by Roy Whiteley. It has an onboard tone generator, with over 30 sounds, and has a headphone socket. It plays quietly or loudly depending on bellows pressure, although I don't think it's as sensitive as the real thing.

 

I use it for silent practice, and it is very, very useful for that. It's fun as well, big organ sounds coming out of this little box. I've never tried it through a sound system - might offend the neighbours.

 

I'd definitely recommend contacting Roy to see if he can help you. He kept to his word about timescales etc, and I found him helpful.

 

I'm messing with Hayden duet at the moment, and if I decide to stick with that system, I intend to return to Roy some time in the future to see if he can make a Hayden midi.

 

Good luck,

 

Joy

[Johan]

As did understand it, they build the firmware from scratch. The transposing is not yet included. But most soundmodules offer that possibility themselves. The system itself transmits limited mididata.

Well, yes, but that's not the same as being able to switch from Jeffries G/D layout to Wheatstone C/G layout, which is how I lke things.

 

It is possible to create your own preset layout, In that sense you can transpose the concertina the way you like it. What I ment was that there's no simple transpose button besides the octave shift button.

[Chris Allert]

so there have been a few comments in this thread about the lack of built-in transposing on the midi concertina. if your synthesizer can't transpose, i'd recommend a midi solutions event processor. ( http://www.midisolutions.com/prodepp.htm ). midi solutions make a number of other useful devices as well. the only drawback to the event processor is that you must use windows xp to program it using their utility if you don't want to manually edit a midi sysex file. the other thing about the event processor is it needs power from the midi cable, so if the wakker midi box doesn't provide power you'll need to run the signal through something else that does.

 

i've got a wakker midi anglo on order as well and i'm hoping that this discussion means it will be on its way to me soon. i'm planning to use it to run analog syntesizers, which i'm not sure has been done before, but i'd love to hear from anyone else who's doing this. right now i'm thinking that a midi anglo and a dave smith evolver ( http://www.davesmithinstruments.com/evolver/design.html ) will make a nice portable combination for performances.

 

what kind of syntesizers are other midi anglo owners using?

[ragtimer]

I've got a midi English by Roy Whiteley. It has an onboard tone generator, with over 30 sounds, and has a headphone socket. It plays quietly or loudly depending on bellows pressure, although I don't think it's as sensitive as the real thing.

Good! I don't need much in the way of bellows sensitivity -- some would be good, though. For a compact travel unit, might want to dispense with "bellows" completely, and just have the two ends solid together.

I use it for silent practice, and it is very, very useful for that. It's fun as well, big organ sounds coming out of this little box. I've never tried it through a sound system - might offend the neighbours.

Yep, that's what I want -- silent practice, plus other, big sounds. Why not convince your neighbors that you've suddenly become very good on organ or trombone?

I'd definitely recommend contacting Roy to see if he can help you. He kept to his word about timescales etc, and I found him helpful.

Anyone who delivers when promised is nice to deal with. Though I suspect the first mention of price would turn my fantasies in a different direcction ... ;-)

I'm messing with Hayden duet at the moment, and if I decide to stick with that system, I intend to return to Roy some time in the future to see if he can make a Hayden midi.

Hayden is my main (so far, only) squeeze, so that makes two of us potential customers for a Hayden version.

In fact, given the scarcity of top-shelf Haydens, maybe the MIDI maker(s) should step in. At least they don't have to worry about getting all those reeds and pads into a small space.

Thanks -- Mike K.

[m3838]

I think all those midi and electro concertinas is a dead end. There will never be market big enough to justify the R&D and to lower prices.

The only, to my opinion, option is a Midi (or whatever electronics) kit.

It should contain enough buttons, ends with electronics, that can be hooked to buttons, and pressure sensitive device, either attached to buttons, or in sides connecting unit, like bellows.

Then you can drill your holes, insert your buttons, bush them, connect to wires, hook palm rest or thumb loop - and you are good to go. A fun home project at lower price. There is cajun accordion in kit, for example. And it is not bad, the only problem, the kit costs $800 last I checked, and is mostly preassembled, with real reeds, bellows etc. So the saving is not there. With electronic instrument the picture is entirely different. It can be shaped like this:

 

----\\ ----//, where '\/' is the sides and the 'O' is some hinge with pressure sensor.

-----\\ --//

------\\ //

-------O

 

But this is only a training instrument, where quality of sound, action etc. is not an issue.

For real Midi instrument I can't care less.

[S-Wave]

If you're still looking for a midi concertina that doesn't rely on the synth module for transposition then check out the S-Wave Instruments website

 

These instruments have been mentioned in a few threads on this forum but just to wet your interest they are wholly electronic and incorporate a pressure sensor instead of bellows to enable the player to control volume and tone. They are set up to transmit midi messages on up to 4 channels with each channel having a different pressure-volume relationship (if required). Each of the 32 buttons on the right hand end has an associated sound preset which can be implimented in just two button presses.

 

As I said, take a look and drop me a line if you want to know more (enquiries@s-wave.co.uk).

 

Dean Onyon

[Chris Timson]

I saw the review in the ICA newsletter, which quite wetted my appetite I must admit. As it happens I am very happy with my Whiteley MIDI anglo conversion, but personally the more concertinas (and concertina-shaped objects) there are in the world the better. I wouldn't go so far as to suggest concertinas would aid world peace, but it might be a happier place if Blair. Bush, Kim Il Jong and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had all bumped into each other at Concertinas @ Witney...

 

Chris

 

Edited to add PS: You might want to take your email address out of your post (replace it with a graphic, maybe) because it makes it easy for spammers to get hold of your address.

Edited November 16, 2006 by Chris Timson