Latest Ebay Jeffries

[Robin Harrison]

Why should it be "deeply offensive ' that someone would pay a lot of money for a top quality instrument, even if it needs some repair.The Jeffries that just sold appeared to have reeds in wonderful condition ......every thing else about the anglo will be easily repairable and it will be a fabulous concertina to play for another hundred years.

 

Quote.........."people seem heedless of the simple fact that reed instruments peak differently than all-wood instruments such as violins. there is a point of diminishing value. a point at which too many parts are replacement parts. a point at which you are paying 10 & 12 grand for cumbersome century-old action"

 

Two things.............................first is that after concertina reeds have been played in ( and are used frequently) they do not peak. So buying 100 year old concertina reeds is a good proposition.

.............................second is that you are not paying for an old action. That can be easily replaced with a modern action; you are paying for century old reeds.

With regard to accordion reeded anglos already being "plenty expensive", I doubt the makers are making a lot of money ......

Cheers Robin

[Paul Groff]

Robin,

 

Don't contradict ceemonster.....his/her point of view that players "should" not pay those prices for great old concertinas, but purchase new, accordion-reeded instruments instead, is actually the best hope that prices for the vintage ones will not go higher!

 

Ceemonster,

 

You are absolutely right. The vintage, unrestored concertinas with original, craftsman-made reeds are very poor value now and I agree that the rest of you "should" stop bidding them up. It's contrary to the spirit of "the music." Instead, the dealers "should" buy them, restore them, and sell them to excellent players in Ireland who understand their true value as instruments with the quality of a fine piano or violin, but much more rare. And, ceemonster, if you succeed in discouraging others from bidding on them, Robin or I may have a better chance to pick up the odd one also.

 

And when you are done with concertinas, could you please get to work on the market for houses. My family would like to own one of them someday.

 

An aside,

 

I was very disappointed to read Bill McHale, who was arguing similar points (relative value of traditionally reeded vs. accordion-reeded concertinas) for so long, start to discuss ordering a Suttner. I wish those of you who are championing the new accordion-reeded instruments would just have the courage of your convictions and stick with them, and show us over a committed lifetime of playing all their possibilities for making great music. I'm serious here. That's what the Fender electric guitar players did when the players and makers of more expensive archtop electrics mocked the "plank guitars."

 

Paul

Edited May 3, 2006 by Paul Groff

[richard]

I'm glad you mention electric guitars. I recently heard a story on public radio about the "vintage" electric guitar market and how collectors (and I suppose some dedicated players) are paying up to $200,000 for the "most desirable" Les Paul and stratocaster. Now isn't that frivilous, a bit obscene and whimsical. It seemed driven by the notion of making THE hot investment.

 

It all makes current price for good concertinas, which seem to be purchased by passionate playing people mostly, sober and reasonable. I wouldn't say there is a concertina "bubble", there is just an increasing demand and limited supply. But the prices aren't fantastical and disonnected to reality.

 

Richard

[Dave Prebble]

Quality instruments will always demand top dollar in a restricted market.

 

Even 28 years ago when I bought my first Jeffries, this cost me over 6 weeks take-home pay and involved a heck of a lot of sacrifices ! It was not a decision taken lightly I can tell you.

 

You have got to be fully committed - if you do not recognise and appreciate the difference in quality or cannot clearly see the life long benefits to you of owning and playing such an instrument, then it is obviously not for you.

 

There are intermediate vintage concertinas and an increasing range of new instruments available.

 

The instrument you end up with is as much a measure of your determination to own it as the depth of your pocket.

 

Don't expect much in the way of support here when you start knocking those folks who are prepared to make big sacrifices for a top quality instrument that will give them a lifetime of joy before being passed on to the next generation.

 

Obscene ? I reserve that word for someone paying the equivalent of ten Jeffries' for a three ton, 4 wheel drive, 4.9 litre engine, gas guzzling 'Chelsea Tractor' to take the kids to school in .......

 

Dave

Edited May 3, 2006 by Dave Prebble

[ceemonster]

i own more than one accordion reeded box and one so-called "authentic" box, am on the suttner list, and like my accordion-reeded every bit as much as my concertina-reeded instruments. but i am absolutely not championing a movement to seek out fair cost-value alternatives out of any mystical, sentimental or stereotyped idea that people born in ireland are somehow more "worthy" of vintage boxes, though i must say that i have heard the violins on that theme from not one, but more than one.........vintage box dealer (not that discounts are being handed out to the irish, of course!). when it comes to, er, "earning the right" (anybody heard that phrase anywhere before?) to play a certain instrument, that qualification is in the heart of the player, not the judgment of dealers or pedants, and it is not race-based. being born in ireland makes you potentially as shallow, asinine and unappreciative, or potentially as soulful and respectful, of music and instruments, as anybody else. the young irish players are going to mr. suttner in droves, and i hope and predict will soon be smashing the accordion-reed barrier as well....vive la liberation!

 

the prices of the "authentic" box i own and the box i will eventually buy from suttner are half, perhaps less than half, what one these vintage boxes today goes for. however, both are makes with multi-year wait lists. and that is the point----between grotesquely high prices and four-year-plus waits, the situation needs change.

 

i have been in county clare & seen local moms who are by no means rich chasing around the countryside after a rumor or a seller in hopes of forking over the price of a family car for uncertified, unguaranteed vintage boxes with who-knows-what inside. nobody, however, maudlin they may wax about repatriating the irish concertinas or some of the other bilge i have heard over the years, is going to be giving discounts on vintage jeffries to the folks in ireland anytime soon. they too are paying through the nose to buy these boxes at ludicrous stratospheric prices, and more often than not, doing so on a handshake, with no vetting, certification or any other assurance as to whether those allegedly incredible 100-year-old reeds are any good or are even original [in point of fact, it remains unproven at best how much more time they are good for at 12 grand a pop, and for a fact, plenty of boxes that started their careers as jeffries now contain lachenal-quality replacement reeds added over the decades, not that many buyers in this market are knowledgeable enough to check before forking out the dosh].

 

who knows, perhaps it is the irish folks who will soon say "enough" and lead the movement to more realistic price-for-value alternatives. there is expensive, and then there is grotesque, and we have arrived there, imho. there is a poster on one of the irish player forums who says anglo concertina is now off-limits unless you are a rich yuppie or collector. that may be a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much. yes, 10 and 12 grand for folk music instruments, and five-year wait lists for alternatives, offends me. in guitar-land, sure, you can pay 8 grand and a wait for a lavish custom cocobolo box. but a couple of grand will get you a superb instrument with no wait, not to mention the very decent ones to be had for even less. in concertina-land, the answer would seem to be to either develop more easily-made "authentic-sounding" concertina reeds, or get over the culturally arbitrary prejudice against the equally fantastic sound of well-made accordion-reeded boxes. or, hey, why not both??? the time draws nigh, my brother and sister squeezers! up norman! up marcus! up tedrow! up edgley! three more jurgen suttners, five more rob morses, & five more dana kensingtons out there, and our side storms the barricades!!! up with the people's music!! long fly the banner of gerdy commane!!! all hail the people's buttons!!!

[Paul Read]

who knows, perhaps it is the irish folks who will soon say "enough" and lead the movement to more realistic price-for-value alternatives. there is expensive, and then there is grotesque, and we have arrived there, imho. there is a poster on one of the irish player forums who says anglo concertina is now off-limits unless you are a rich yuppie or collector. that may be a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much. yes, 10 and 12 grand for folk music instruments, and five-year wait lists for alternatives, offends me. in guitar-land, sure, you can pay 8 grand and a wait for a lavish custom cocobolo box. but a couple of grand will get you a superb instrument with no wait, not to mention the very decent ones to be had for even less. in concertina-land, the answer would seem to be to either develop more easily-made "authentic-sounding" concertina reeds, or get over the culturally arbitrary prejudice against the equally fantastic sound of well-made accordion-reeded boxes. or, hey, why not both??? the time draws nigh, my brother and sister squeezers! up norman! up marcus! up tedrow! up edgley! three more jurgen suttners, five more rob morses, & five more dana kensingtons out there, and our side storms the barricades!!! up with the people's music!! long fly the banner of gerdy commane!!! all hail the people's buttons!!!

 

I'll have one of whatever he's drinking!

Edited May 4, 2006 by Paul Read

[JimLucas]

i have been in county clare & seen local moms who are by no means rich chasing around the countryside after a rumor or a seller in hopes of forking over the price of a family car for uncertified, unguaranteed vintage boxes with who-knows-what inside.

If you want the situation to change, I suggest you try educating people, rather than condemning them. But that means educating the ones who are behaving in what you see as a foolish manner. Most of us here aren't in a position to influence the behavior of mothers in Ireland, even if we felt we should.

[JimLucas]

i am fascinated yet appalled at the spectator sport of watching the insanity in the vintage concertina market right now.

What's happening -- at least here on C.net and even in this Topic -- is far more than a spectator sport.

 

We share information, compare notes and ideas, advise each other, and learn from each other. This information not only helps C.net members, but -- thanks to Google -- can also help inform others unknown to us, hopefully also helping them to avoid foolish mistakes. Our questions and comments on individual auctions also help both buyers and sellers.

 

Our "spectating" has also been instrumental in stopping numerous scams, both saving others -- often we don't know who -- from losing money to fraud and I suspect also combatting even higher price expectations that could result from other forms of fraudulent manipulation added to those scams if they were not stopped.

[JimLucas]

Another view of eBay.