Breaking In New Reeds

[Robert Booth]

Here's a beginners question that's probably been addressed before, but here goes: It seems to be accepted that new reeds will, over time, "break in" and the sound and response will change, generally for the better. I'm curious about exactly what happens to that reed and why the tone changes. What would be the lifespan of a given reed, and how does it continue to change after the break in period? Is there a particular "arc of performance"?

 

For that matter, I'm still pretty fuzzy about the difference between accordion reeds and concertina reeds.

 

Rescue me from ignorance, please.

[m3838]

I could never understand this either. If a reed softens with flexing - it must go flat and quiett. If hardens - must go sharp and loud, but lose dynamic range. If it becomes mellower sounding, then it can be the result of thin film of dirt accumulating on reed's survace, changing reeds' acoustics.

Could it be simply the matter of player's getting used to the sound?

I also found (with help of my teacher), than you do change the character of the sound with the way you play. It DOES matter how one depresses the key, the speed of opening the valve. I remember my been awestruck, when my teacher picked up my Weltmeister with overbearing basses and played some music, and the basses were very soft. He always stressed the importance of technique. So I guess a new instrument players just developes the technique and the instrument begins to sound softer.

No?

[Ken_Coles]

One explanation I've heard for violins (well, fiddles) and guitars would (wood?) make sense here: It's the wood. As it vibrates it stiffens in some places and not others, and develops (in the case of a well-designed and made string instrument) more and more pleasing resonances. I have presumed that in the case (when not in its case?) of a concertina the wood in the reedpan and perhaps elsewhere does something similar. Guitarists and fiddlers are urged to think hard before refinishing their prized vintage instruments, because the wisdom is that putting new varnish on means this process has to start all over, and can take years.

 

So I think of the building of tone (Colin told me, when he finished my instument, "All that concertina needs now is a LOT of playing!") as changes in the wood, not the metal of the reeds. Wearing in of the instrument (not wearing it out, gee, I have Lucas-isms today!), rather than breaking in of the metal reeds.

 

Ken

[JimLucas]

...gee, I have Lucas-isms today!...

Perhaps you were infected by a certain friend?

If so, I think she was a "carrier", not showing overt symptoms.

[Dazbo]

Not exactly relevant perhaps but the tone of brass handbells do change over time without going out of tune. It seems that as the metal work-hardens with use the tone 'improves' from the initial sound. Although it is possible that this could be down to accumulated 'dirt' I believe it is due to changes within the structure of the metal.

Edited April 12, 2006 by Dazbo

[Robert Booth]

OK, so would there be a limit to the changes to the tone, ect. over a long period of time, or will the sound continue to change throughout the life of the instrument? We know of concertinas that are around a century old. Have they changed at a constant rate or just reach a state where wood and metal have changed as much as they can, given the ...uh...dynamics, I guess is the word - of the materials?

 

I ask because I bought an older bastari that was as creaky and cranky sounding as can be imagined. Over the two or three years that I've been playing it, my habit of favoring the left hand has opened and sweetened the sound of that set of reeds till there is a noticable difference in tone when I cross over from left to right, especially up in the higher regions. Another good reason to pay more attention to the right hand.

[d.elliott]

There is one change mechanism relating to reeds that I am convinced of:

 

Vibrating metals tend to stress relieve and settle, even bending to stress neutral positions (when the vibration is being effected).

I believe that when a reed tongue vibrates it vibrates with its neutral axis being pushed towards its optimum sounding (least stress condition). Vibration then causes further stress relief so the reed subtilely settles in its best set and form, but only over a longish period of play, ie. it plays in.

 

This is only a theory, but the science works, and it seems to account for part of the 'playing in' effect

 

Dave

[m3838]

Very interesting theory, but wouldn't it mean that those reeds that play the most - play in, and those that don't - don't?

Which will make an instrument more uneven in it's sound, and a new player, that plays in different style or different music, will notice rather poor qualtiy of the sound? So if this is true, then only buy used instruments, if you play in the same style, the same music as the seller. Then playing in effect will be to your benefit. Otherwise it'll work against you.

[d.elliott]

Clearly those reeds that get used the most settle first! Irrespective of any style of play, and irrespective of my suggestion. "Don't play it, and it don't play in", does seem a good starting point, yes?

 

The phenominon of vibration stress relief is well known, for instance, somewhere called 'USA' uses it to stress relieve it's battle tank's main gun barrels, amongst thousands of technical applications.

 

The effect I have seen in newly re-tuned concertinas is that there is a gradual refinement of responsiveness (starting with those reeds that get played the most). Please note: responsiveness rather than tone or pitch. I suggest that you search for Rich Morse's several lengthy posts on the topic of playing in reeds, and you will see how my theory accounts for some of the empirical experiences.

 

Dave

[Frank Edgley]

M3838-"Very interesting theory, but wouldn't it mean that those reeds that play the most - play in, and those that don't - don't?"

FRANK: That's exactly what I have observed, with many instruments---those I have repaired (when I did repairs), the Dipper(s) I have owned for years, and even my own instruments. Those notes which are played most often sound different than those never, or seldom played. This would seem to indicate that the reeds change. I'm sure the wood has something to do with the overall change as well.

[m3838]

Which brings us back to playing scales and arpeggios.

One simply has to do it in all keys, using all the buttons, if one wants his instrument to be even and well balanced? The dilemma of whether to play or not to play scales is solved: play.

Also, Could this account for very different tone between C and G rows? The C sound is more full and mellow, and the same notes on the G often are tinnier.

[Frank Edgley]

Smoe of it, perhaps. But there may be a factor of where the vent holes are located relative to the position of the hand.

[ragtimer]

Here's a beginners question that's probably been addressed before, but here goes: It seems to be accepted that new reeds will, over time, "break in" and the sound and response will change, generally for the better. I'm curious about exactly what happens to that reed and why the tone changes. What would be the lifespan of a given reed, and how does it continue to change after the break in period? Is there a particular "arc of performance"?

I don't doubt that reeds "play in" or "break in" with time and usage -- and I wonder if they ultimately wear out and break.

 

But maybe some of the improvement is responsiveness is subjective, and is really due to the softening up of the bellows, which we can all understand is going to happen -- new or long-unplayed bellows will be stiff, and loosen up with usage. Probably much faster than the reeds will break in.

 

To the player, it will seem that easier, gentler squeezing gives quicker, more nuanced reed response, if the bellows have loosened up -- even if the reeds haven't changed.

 

Recently I tried out an identical new copy of my Stagi Hayden Duet, and it seemed pretty stiff and unresponsive, compared to my own 18-month old job -- but I couldn't be sure how much of one impression was influenced by the other. Of course my own feels better than when I got it, but that may just be because I've learned to actually play it :-) --Mike K.

Edited April 19, 2006 by ragtimer