Dollar/euro Conversion

[Mark Berry]

Hi,

 

I haven't posted here in a while but I have a question. Can anyone explain to me how the exchange rates work? I just paid for my Suttner and using the currency converter on his site, I expected to pay several hundred dollars more than what I did (my bank wired the money). When I saw my statement I was very pleasantly surprised. The dollar amount was almost exactly the same as the euro amount. Juergen confirmed that I had paid the right amount. Is the exchange rate different if you are purchasing goods?

If that's the case, that currency converter may be scaring off some U.S. customers.

 

On a separate note, I am very excited to be getting a high-end concertina but I am feeling a little guilty. I am a very average player and I could have made do with a lesser instrument. I was locked into 2002 prices so it's already a good investment, but it wouldn't make any sense to ever sell it. Any suggestions to help ease my conscience?

 

Mark

[Animaterra]

I can't respond to the euro-dollar question except to speculate that the day you made the actual purchase, the dollar was stronger than it had been when you last had checked.

 

I am feeling a little guilty. I am a very average player and I could have made do with a lesser instrument

 

I was pretty much a beginner when I inherited my Jeffries, and can only say that the beauty of the instrument accelerated my playing pleasure and hence, my ability. I'm still an average player at best, but feel very blessed every time I hold it in my hands.

[Ken_Coles]

Hi Mark, how are you? I am still playing the Morse Ceili you sold me in (was it?) 2001. It is my main road box, and even though I have two other nice concertinas available, I play it quite a bit. Thanks for selling it to me! Are you still fixing up boxes?

 

Your timing is lucky. When my Dipper was done, the dollar was at a many-year low against Sterling. It added something like $400 U.S. to the cost. If the extra price had gone into Colin's pocket that would be fine with me, but it just disappears along the way somewhere. Time to sell some concertinas back to the U.K.!

 

Play what you have, and in this life sometimes you'll have what you want to play. Me, I fooled around with concertina for over a decade before having a "top" instrument, but I honestly don't know that having it sooner would have changed my learning curve very much.

 

Enjoy your Suttner. What accidental layout did you choose?

[m3838]

When I started with a CBA, I had Hohner Amica II, then I got 72 bass Weltmeister.

My teacher was keen on finding a good box for me and he landed me a hand-made russian bayan, from the 60-es, with hand-made reeds.

Superb instrument. Guess what, It showed off my mistakes so much, I couldn't play it on public.

Another point is that an instrument's quality is really important to the player, but listener often doesn't hear the difference (in a common sence frame). So a Morse Ceili (awesome, BTW) might sound better than the Dipper, if the Ceili player is better.

Record yourself alot, this Dipper of yours will probably be a difficult one to handle at first. Me? I'd stay away from such instruments for now. They're not forgiving.

[Ken_Coles]

Another point is that an instrument's quality is really important to the player, but listener often doesn't hear the difference (in a common sence frame). So a Morse Ceili (awesome, BTW) might sound better than the Dipper, if the Ceili player is better.

Record yourself alot, this Dipper of yours will probably be a difficult one to handle at first. Me? I'd stay away from such instruments for now. They're not forgiving.

 

That's a very insightful remark, Michael. A better box is more demanding to play. It can do a lot more, but it also does exactly what you tell it to. Not much tolerance or forgiveness, as you say. I should try recording again myself, it has been a while.

 

The Dipper has been changing during its first winter here. I have a room carefully humidified, but maybe Colin expected the dry heat I had in another house when I placed my order. Some of the reeds were buzzing, so I opened it up and found they were all extremely tight in the reed pan, with a few tongues out of line. I reset them all and most are better now, but I'm waiting to see what summer does. Like a fine car that has to have ideal conditions, oil, etc. to work ideally! But I'll take it!

[Mark Berry]

Enjoy your Suttner. What accidental layout did you choose?

 

 

Hi Ken,

I'm doing well, thank you. It happens that the only concertina I have owned with a Jeffries layout was the one I sold to you. It was awkward for me having learned on Lachenals, Bastaris and Jones (oh my!).

I hope I adjust to the metal buttons. I have been playing a lot of guitar lately and have some serious calluses on my left hand. I may be slipping around the keyboard for awhile.

Mark

[Cream-T]

The currency converter I tend to use is http://www.xe.com/ucc/

 

This always represents the "now" of conversion rates.

[Mark Evans]

The currency converter I tend to use is http://www.xe.com/ucc/

 

This always represents the "now" of conversion rates.

 

I've used this one as well. Unfortunately, as my wife works in Europe frequently we deal with a system that always reflects an exchange rate that favors the financial instution on whatever side of the Atlantic to our detriment.

 

When presenting the print out of the up to the minute exchange rate the bank manager gave me a rather amazing song and dance routine. Didn't care for the tune or the steps as it had the aroma of a barnyard substance I'm careful not to drag into the house on the bottom of my Wellingtons .

 

Cautionary note to Mark: That conversion rate from your bank may be updated. Wire transfers are a fact of our lives and we have found the rates move like sand on a beach. Transfers are not instantaneous.

 

Man, that ruined my morning coffee

Edited April 3, 2006 by Mark Evans

[Chris Timson]

On a separate note, I am very excited to be getting a high-end concertina but I am feeling a little guilty. I am a very average player and I could have made do with a lesser instrument. I was locked into 2002 prices so it's already a good investment, but it wouldn't make any sense to ever sell it. Any suggestions to help ease my conscience?

I've always strongly advocated that people should buy the best concertina they can reasonably afford. Consider also that when you commision a fine concertina from a maker such as Jurgen Suttner you adding to the world's stock of fine concertinas that will likely outlive you by centuries. You should be regarded as a benefactor by the entire human race!

 

Chris

[Alan Miller]

Mark: Here is a thought re the exchange rate. I believe that Juergen's prices include VAT which can be in the 17 to 19% range. When sold to the U.S., that VAT is not collected. Instead there is a relatively modest duty. That may be your answer.

 

As for deserving to own and play a Suttner. I think you will grow with it, and it will give you lots of encouragement when you see what you can do.

 

Alan

[JimLucas]

The currency converter I tend to use is http://www.xe.com/ucc/

This always represents the "now" of conversion rates.

I've used this one as well. Unfortunately, as my wife works in Europe frequently we deal with a system that always reflects an exchange rate that favors the financial instution on whatever side of the Atlantic to our detriment.

First point: The rates posted at various services are generally some sort of average of transactions that have already occurred between banks. They do not prescribe rates that banks must use, nor do they reflect the fees banks include to make a profit when they transact with you.

 

Second point: Your bank most likely has at least three different rates at any given time: a "buy" rate, a "sell" rate, and an "interbank" rate. The interbank rate is basically what they have managed to trade their currency for (e.g., dollars for euros if they had an excess of euros, or vice versa) that day. (These trades may go in opposite directions on succeeding days.) It's a simple swap.

 

The buy and sell rates basically have a commission built in to pay them for the service of buying or selling your money for you. Since you pay a fee whether you're buying or selling, the "buy-sell spread" -- the difference between the buy and sell rates -- is essentially double the fee. My experience in Denmark is that the spread tends to be about 5%. With American banks I've seen it as high as 10%.

 

In fact, most Danish (European?) banks these days seem to have different buy and sell rates for checks than for cash, essentially charging a lower fee for the checks because it's all electronic, so they don't have to buy, sell, or ship actual cash. My bank gives an even better rate for purely electronic transfers.

 

Over and above this, most banks also charge a fixed fee on such a transaction. E.g., if I'm depositing euros, dollars, Swedish kronor, etc. in my Danish account, they apply the conversion and then charge me an additional 30 Danish kroner... about $5, or £3. (Interestingly, if I'm depositing amounts in three different currencies at the same time they only charge me the 30 kr once.)

 

When presenting the print out of the up to the minute exchange rate the bank manager gave me a rather amazing song and dance routine. Didn't care for the tune or the steps as it had the aroma of a barnyard substance I'm careful not to drag into the house on the bottom of my Wellingtons .

Sounds like it really was a song and dance. If you can bring down your blood pressure, you might want to learn more... like whether he just didn't know what he was talking about, or whether your bank is playing fast and loose with the rules. (See my further points.)

 

Cautionary note to Mark: That conversion rate from your bank may be updated. Wire transfers are a fact of our lives and we have found the rates move like sand on a beach. Transfers are not instantaneous.

Third point: Once the money is sent, the rate is fixed. My experience with banks both in the US and Europe is that they all use a cutoff time of 11:00 am local time... if your you get your transaction entered into their computer before that time, then it is sent immediately and the rate used is that morning's (actually yesterday's) rate. Otherwise, it isn't actually sent until the new day's rate is set (i.e., when they manage to trade this morning's surplus with some other bank which has an opposite surplus). That is where an uncertainty over rates can come in, but if they're not telling you that, then it sounds wrong. The rate should definitely not change more than a business day after you enter your transaction, i.e., the rate must be established before the transfer is actually made, because...

 

Returning to the second point: Your transaction is not occurring over the banking network. It is with your bank. And while they initiate the transfer of funds, that is not an actual trading of funds. That is done only in large blocks, on the net difference on the sum of all the bank's transfers, I think usually once a day. Even on cash transactions the bank is playing to an advantage of working with net amounts. E.g., if my bank buys a total of $5000 (in cash) in one day and sells $5100, then it really only needs to trade $100 to balance its books (or it may just carry the difference, because the next day it might go the other way). If the transaction costs on that $100 are 10%, then that's $10. but if in the meantime they've collected 2.5% fees on all the transactions, then that's $252.50, and they've made a profit (before expenses like rent, etc.) of $242.50, or 2.4%. Not bad for a single day.

 

Fourth point: Here's where some extra variability can come in: It seems that many banks -- more than I would have thought -- route their transactions through another bank, and such an intermediary is apparently entitled to charge whatever fee it pleases for the service, without having to specify in advance. I have seen this happen between major banks, both of which are connected directly to the international network, which makes me wonder whether it was really necessary, or if some banks are padding each others' accounts by routing transfers through each other.

 

However, at least my bank offers three options for international funds transfers: 1) all fees paid by the sender, 2) all fees paid by the receiver, or 3) fees paid separately at each end. I always choose the first option for two reasons: firstly, for that they charge a fixed fee, and if there's any variation they somehow handle it themselves, but more importantly, it means that the recipient receives the exact correct amount, not that amount less some random fees, which might not be appreciated by someone whose bill you're supposedly paying.

 

Fifth and final point: Laws vary from country to country and are constantly changing. Banks do their best to take advantage of whatever the local laws are in order to increase their profits, but often they have options (probably intended for their bigger customers, but legally available to all) which you might be able to take advantage of if only you knew about them. Ask. If you're met with a gobbldegook song and dance, ask for someone else to explain it, someone who knows how to speak simple English.

[david_boveri]

On a separate note, I am very excited to be getting a high-end concertina but I am feeling a little guilty. I am a very average player and I could have made do with a lesser instrument. I was locked into 2002 prices so it's already a good investment, but it wouldn't make any sense to ever sell it. Any suggestions to help ease my conscience?

 

Mark

 

how would you ever get better unless you had an instrument to grow into?

 

besides, hobby players like us are what makes instruments like this available. all the best players in the world already have concertinas, so people like us gotta keep the lathes spinning and saws cutting until the next great comes along and needs a concertina. besides, who's to say it s not you!

[Mark Berry]

Thanks for all the encouragement. It was very helpful. And thank you to Chris for recognizing my altruistic motives (although my wife didn’t buy it!).

 

I got my concertina today (next day air!) and love it. It sounds amazing and plays extremely well. And I guess my worries about the metal buttons were unfounded as they present no problem at all for me. I am already playing better. I’m glad I bit the bullet and got one.

 

Mark