Tuning

[m3838]

Hi.

I have decided to start tuning by myself.

I have 20 button brass reeded Lachenal, and a few notes start getting flat. Whether it's a sigh to switch to stiil reeds or not, I don't know, but sending it to a shop will cost me a fortune. And there is no guarantee it'll hold the tuning.

I'm tninking about the electric grinder. I know it's anathema for some, but one doesn't have to run it at high speeds. What would you recommend, what brand, with variable speeds? Any other ideas?

I will tune it by ear, using piano as a pitch compare, and octaves.

I'll put the reed out, grind a little at the tip, put it back and check the tuning by pressing a button and pulling/ pushing the bellows, while holding and pressing the whole assembly tobether by hands. Kind of cumbersome, but working. Done that on a few reeds, works.

Thanks.

[d.elliott]

Don't do it!! (grinding that is)

 

1. brass will clog and glaze the wheel

2, you do not have the control needed, there is a risk of skewing the reed tongue cross-section

3. the reed profile, longitudinally, needs to be maintained, grinding can be to concentrated onto an area, filing is easier to 'spread'

4. on the small reeds even a file is too rough.

 

I have tried and rejected:

 

Grinding,

diamond files,

carbide scrapers,

slip stones.

 

What works for me is a fine swiss file, and more often home made polishing sticks

 

Dave

Edited April 2, 2006 by d.elliott

[Theo]

Don't do it!! (grinding that is)

What works for me is a fine swiss file, and more often home made polishing sticks

Dave

 

And for brass reeds a fibreglass pencil is excellent. It will remove enough metal from brass reeds (but not from steel) and is very gentle and controlable. It is also a very good tool for cleaning reeds, and reed frames. Indeed it is sold by electronics store like Maplins in the UK for cleaning circuit board triacks prior to soldering.

[m3838]

I'll try fiberglass pencil.

What's polishing sticks?

Thanks.

[d.elliott]

Polishing stick is a home made file with a flat face, about 4 ins long with fine wet or dry abraisive paper fixed onto it, to make a very smooth file that will manage brass and even the hardest steel. This tool also improves the reed fatigue life, and prevents stress raisers being formed by file cut marks

 

Fibre glass pencil, is like a propelling pencil, but instead of lead it feeds like a 3mm dia fibre optic core that can be used as a rubbing medium. This can give off itchy dust so use latex gloves

 

Dave

[m3838]

Thanks.

Much appreciated.

Fiber glass stick is out then. Allergy awareness.

What number of sandpaper would you use for brass?

And what width of the stick would you use?

As I get it, one is for rough tuning and once in vicinity of the pitch, switch to finer grades. But you wouldn't use "0" grade, would you? After all, tuning is not making mirrors out of reeds.

[Theo]

I make "polishing" sticks using lolipop sticks and 400 grit wet & dry. No need to use anything coarser, you are removing tiny amounts of metal. In the UK you can buy lolipop sticks in most supermarkets. They are nice timber, with a lovely smooth finish, and with enough strength for this application.

[d.elliott]

I have actually made a couple of polishing sticks out of cherrywood, with small clamps at each end so that I can keep changing the abraisive, simply because I do so much tuning these days. However ice lolipop stckes are ideal for the incidental user (your self excluded Theo)

 

The bigger issue, 'M', is do you have a worthwhile meter, and do you ave an idea of acceptable tolerance?? Meters are quite cheap these days, but you need one which is fully chromatic, and I prefer an analogue display

 

Dave

Edited April 3, 2006 by d.elliott

[Paul Read]

I have actually made a couple of polishing sticks out of cherrywood, with small clamps at each end so that I can keep changing the abraisive, simply because I do so much tuning these days. However ice lolipop stckes are ideal for the incidental user (your self excluded Theo)

 

The bigger issue, 'M', is do you have a worthwhile meter, and do you ave an idea of acceptable tolerance?? Meters are quite cheap these days, but you need one which is fully chromatic, and I prefer an analogue display

 

Dave

 

Also, the usual guitar-type chromatic tuners are very inaccurate. Ideally you should be using a strobe type tuner for acceptable accuracy.

[m3838]

Can't justify special tools for ocational tuning. Will have to rely on my ears.

What's "acceptable accuracy" and "tolerances"?

Edited April 3, 2006 by m3838

[JimLucas]

What's "acceptable accuracy" and "tolerances"?

Matters of opinion.

[OLDNICKILBY]

We have designed a series of sanding tools called Finger Sanders with a rotatable belt ,hand held , non electric

for all sorts of modelling jobs Belt grits are 160 and 240 and 320 If any one would like one email us or even phone 0116 2403400 and we will send you a sample with a couple of belts free of charge.

There can be a dust problem with the scratch pens but they are superb for removing the crud on the reed and the reedframe and as often as not they restore the reed to the correct pitch,again we sell lotsof them at

£3.35 with three refills phone or e mail for a catalogue sorry for the commercial.

It is important if you are sanding or filing the reeds to keep the "scratches" along the reed not across as this will put fracture lines in and guess what ,the reeds will fracture as they flex

[Paul Read]

Can't justify special tools for ocational tuning. Will have to rely on my ears.

What's "acceptable accuracy" and "tolerances"?

 

I think Jim's right (although tongue-in-cheek). It is an individual thing. If you've got a really good ear you may get away with tuning without a tuner. Don't forget though that it isn't just whether it sounds good to you, listeners will also have varying tolerances for off tuning. You may well stand out in a session for the wrong reasons!

 

I once heard someone on stage say that Irish musicians are well known for spending half the evening tuning their instruments and the rest of the evening playing out of tune (mind you, he was the bodhran player ). In that case you may well be fine.

 

Personally, I think you're heading into trouble with this approach. However, if you just want to learn about tuning, the best way is to learn from your mistakes.

[Chris Ghent]

It is important if you are sanding or filing the reeds to keep the "scratches" along the reed not across as this will put fracture lines in and guess what ,the reeds will fracture as they flex

 

 

While the fractures are a real issue most reeds are created by latitudinal filing or grinding. The direction doesn't matter as much as not leaving significant acute angles in the surface to create stress risers.

 

Chris

Edited April 4, 2006 by Chris Ghent

[meph]

I honed my tuning techniques to their present level of imperfection by practising on old out of tune harmonicas - at least they're cheap and you can get a good idea of what can and can't be achieved. This brings to mind a long running argument between Lee Oskar and Hohner blues harp devotees. The former harmonicas tend to be tuned to an equal temperament, which is claimed to make them better for solo playing. Hohners, on the other hand, are tuned to make the basic chords sound sweeter (this might be a better approach for a 20 button concertina if you don't stray far from the home key, but I'd bow to the expert opinion).

[JimLucas]

...I'd bow to the expert opinion.

But which expert?

[m3838]

The whole debate is uncalled for, because if I wanted to learn to tune my instruments, I'd do it the "right" way, with all sorts of precausions, tools etc.

But I just want to sharpen 3 reeds, that are used alot and have gone flat. It may well be a sign that these reeds need replacements.

Now, I definiitely want equal temper, because I "chromatized" my 20 button, and it's capable of any key. If any of you want cheap 20 button, able to play in all keys -- I have the secret.

[Paul Read]

The whole debate is uncalled for, because if I wanted to learn to tune my instruments, I'd do it the "right" way, with all sorts of precausions, tools etc.

But I just want to sharpen 3 reeds, that are used alot and have gone flat. It may well be a sign that these reeds need replacements.

Now, I definiitely want equal temper, because I "chromatized" my 20 button, and it's capable of any key. If any of you want cheap 20 button, able to play in all keys -- I have the secret.

 

If it's only 3 reeds you will probably get away with it. If you'chromatized' your 20-button by moving reeds about and didn't adjust the tuning of the moved reeds, you've probably got notes a few cents out already and that isn't bothering you. At first I thought you meant you'd had it chrome plated