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Buttons Located Directly On Top Of One Another


gretchen

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I've been playing for a little less than a year on an anglo concertina with a jeffries set-up. It often happens that I come across runs where two notes that are located right on top of each other must be played in very quick sucession. I'm just wondering if anyone has any little tricks for this sort of situation. I can manage to play this way but maybe there's a better way?

 

For example in Sean Ryan's Polka (if you're not familiar with the tune here's a link: http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/441 ) what would you do with that A part? Would you play on the pull with the B and C# on the right hand or use the push and rely more on the left hand? In this tune there's a bit of a way around it... but other times it's not so easy to find an alternative... what then? It's often the B and C# that cause this I find. Any hints?

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Sean Ryan's Polka

My concertina has the Wheatstone fingering, so I have only one reasonable choice for this tune: B C# d on the push, with B and d in the left hand and C# in the right. If I understand you correctly, I run into the same problem in other situations though. For instance, in Em tunes B is often right after E, and I often want to play both notes with the left hand. So what I have learned to do in that situation is cross my ring finger in underneath for the B. Or if I want to play (high) e after A, top buttons of C and G rows on the left hand draw, I will drag my index finger across from A to e. Both of those are tricks I thought were nuts until I had been playing for a couple of years.

 

I'm not so sure about that right hand draw C# though. It's on the top button of the accidental row, right? Can you reach B on the draw with your middle finger, C# with your index finger, and d with your ring finger?

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Sean Ryan's Polka

My concertina has the Wheatstone fingering, so I have only one reasonable choice for this tune: B C# d on the push, with B and d in the left hand and C# in the right. If I understand you correctly, I run into the same problem in other situations though. For instance, in Em tunes B is often right after E, and I often want to play both notes with the left hand. So what I have learned to do in that situation is cross my ring finger in underneath for the B. Or if I want to play (high) e after A, top buttons of C and G rows on the left hand draw, I will drag my index finger across from A to e. Both of those are tricks I thought were nuts until I had been playing for a couple of years.

 

I'm not so sure about that right hand draw C# though. It's on the top button of the accidental row, right? Can you reach B on the draw with your middle finger, C# with your index finger, and d with your ring finger?

 

Actually, I tend to just play both the B and C# with my index finger... I've never actually done the crossing the fingers under each other movement. I just jump up there very quickly with the same finger.... luckily my concertina has short, rounded buttons so it's easy to slip up there. But maybe I'll run into trouble with my technique later if I don't change this now, what do you think?

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I've been playing for a little less than a year on an anglo concertina with a jeffries set-up. It often happens that I come across runs where two notes that are located right on top of each other must be played in very quick sucession. I'm just wondering if anyone has any little tricks for this sort of situation. I can manage to play this way but maybe there's a better way?

 

For example in Sean Ryan's Polka (if you're not familiar with the tune here's a link: http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/441 ) what would you do with that A part? Would you play on the pull with the B and C# on the right hand or use the push and rely more on the left hand? In this tune there's a bit of a way around it... but other times it's not so easy to find an alternative... what then? It's often the B and C# that cause this I find. Any hints?

Hi Gretchen,

 

from looking at tutors and what actual players do there seem many different variations. Three top players that I've seen all do different things:

 

one would play push B pull C# pull D (works if you have a pull C# on the first button - in fact, thinking about it, that C# could be a push on the 1st button if you have the wheatstone layout)

 

one would play pull B push C# push D (which works well if you have a push C# on the second button)

one would play pull B pull C# and pull D but use fingers 1 2 and then 3 (seems awkward to me).

 

I experimented recently with playing the sequence on the pull but using the finger sequence 2 1 3. That worked quite well a lot of the time but I've stopped doing it now

 

Other people, I guess would play BC#D all on the push but I have also seen that some top players are not afraid of jumping.

 

I'm not an expert - those are just my observations......

 

Ritchie

 

PS just edited for spelling and again because I said push C# rather than pull in the first example.

Edited by Ritchie_Kay
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Three top players that I've seen all do different things:

one would play push B push C# pull D (works if you have a pull C# on the first button)

one would play pull B push C# push D (which works well if you have a push C# on the second button)

one would play pull B pull C# and pull D but use fingers 1 2 and then 3 (seems awkward to me).

 

I experimented recently with playing the sequence on the pull but using the finger sequence 2 1 3. That worked quite well a lot of the time but I've stopped doing it now

 

Other people, I guess would play BC#D all on the push but I have also seen that some top players are not afraid of jumping.

 

I'm not an expert - those are just my observations......

 

Hi Ritchie,

 

I'm certainly not an expert on Irish music, but having looked at the music, I realise that this (Ryan's Polka) is a tune which I have played in sessions.

 

I've looked at all of your suggestions above, and, of course, all the options work. However, I believe that it's all to do with "style".

 

If I was tackling this tune from an English "style" perspective, I would play this whole run on the right hand using pull B, pull C#, pull D (index, index, 2nd finger). Note: I have a 36 key C/G, so have the duplicated C#.

 

Players in the Irish "style" will (hopefully) correct me if I am wrong, but here I would suggest that the run should be played on the push. Push B (left hand 2nd finger), push C# (right hand index finger), push D (left hand index finger).

 

As it's an Irish tune, it should really be played in the Irish "style". It flows better using the second fingering which I have suggested, and I believe that this is the key point.

 

Regards,

Peter.

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Players in the Irish "style" will (hopefully) correct me if I am wrong, but here I would suggest that the run should be played on the push. Push B (left hand 2nd finger), push C# (right hand index finger), push D (left hand index finger).

 

As it's an Irish tune, it should really be played in the Irish "style". It flows better using the second fingering which I have suggested, and I believe that this is the key point.

 

Regards,

Peter.

 

Hi Peter,

I find it hard ever to determine what flows intrinsically better and what just feels better because you are used to it.

The first three examples that I gave were all what I have seen as the fingering choices of three different top irish players. I know that your suggestion would be followed by other top irish players.

Ultimately what I am trying to say is that there are various options and people playing well in the Irish style may pick any of them... so it is really up to what you feel is best.

 

Ritchie

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Just to clarify: I am talking about how to access the C# more generally not for this particular tune. Obviously the option you choose will be related to the particular circumstance. None of the examples that I gave of how "top irish players" approach the BC#D issue imply that that is what they would do for this tune.

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Thank you all very much for your help. I've been playing around with it a little and I find that the crossing over thing comes very easily to me as it's not *too* different from the little finger skipping movement I'd been doing. The only thing about the crossing over motion is what to do if the note is directly below the note before it... like if I were playing that run from Sean Ryan's backwards for some reason?

The other suggestions are interesting too.... PeterT's second suggestion was one I'd fiddled around with, but I didn't quite like the feel of it... I'm not quite sure I understand why one is more in "English" and the other more "Irish"... is it because of the little bit of extra bounce from the bellows reversal that must follow the second option? Or does it free your hands up for some ornamentation (I must confess that at this stage of my playing I don't use so very much ornamnetation)?

And Ritchie, thanks for those different methods.... I wouldn't have thought of them.

Thanks again, this has been very helpful for me!

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Sean Ryan's Polka

My concertina has the Wheatstone fingering, so I have only one reasonable choice for this tune: B C# d on the push, with B and d in the left hand and C# in the right. If I understand you correctly, I run into the same problem in other situations though. For instance, in Em tunes B is often right after E, and I often want to play both notes with the left hand. So what I have learned to do in that situation is cross my ring finger in underneath for the B. Or if I want to play (high) e after A, top buttons of C and G rows on the left hand draw, I will drag my index finger across from A to e. Both of those are tricks I thought were nuts until I had been playing for a couple of years.

 

I'm not so sure about that right hand draw C# though. It's on the top button of the accidental row, right? Can you reach B on the draw with your middle finger, C# with your index finger, and d with your ring finger?

 

Actually, I tend to just play both the B and C# with my index finger... I've never actually done the crossing the fingers under each other movement. I just jump up there very quickly with the same finger.... luckily my concertina has short, rounded buttons so it's easy to slip up there. But maybe I'll run into trouble with my technique later if I don't change this now, what do you think?

 

Another suggestion :- pull b second finger, pull c# index finger, pull d second finger.

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Another suggestion :- pull b second finger, pull c# index finger, pull d second finger.

 

Would you do this even with the C# on the second button of the top row? (I am wondering if you maybe have a set up where the first button on the top row is C# on both the push and the pull? I have seen this before)

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Another suggestion :- pull b second finger, pull c# index finger, pull d second finger.
Would you do this even with the C# on the second button of the top row?

Works fine, but I would use different fingers, i.e., index for B, middle for C#, ring for D. And with the first configuration I might do either the suggested middle-index-middle or middle-index-ring.

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