Interchanging, Teaching, Learning Favourite Tunes

[JoachimDelp]

Good Morning Concertina World,

 

My own experiences learning the Concertina for the last 18 nmotnhs, and reading the topic "Favourite Tunes, leads me to write :

 

I presume that most Concertina Players can be found in UK, IOreland, USA, Canada, South-Africa and Australia.

I know about some few players in Germany, Swityerland, Sweden, Danmark, France, Italy, Spain...................

 

Perhaps with exception UK and Ireland, most of us will not have a reguzlkar chance to meet other Concertina Players and to particpate in sessions.

 

Concertina Teachers are frequently not easy to be found nearby our residence.

 

Consequently it is not easy to learn from other players in person, in a traditional human way.

 

We are learning with the help of our Books, Tutors, attending workshops and listening recorded music.

 

The Playerts living out of the Anglo-Saxon and Celtic Aereas, must not necesaryly know about irish Music, Morris Dance and other Anglo Traditional Music.

Teh Players with Anglo-Celtic roots might be interested to learn more than than the usual stuff.

 

I guess, there are many among us, who would prefer to learn by ear, fior whatever eason, even knowing to read note-sheets. Not all of us are specially talented for Music, but enjoy it...................and could leran more efficiently with some help.

Learning (self-teaching) from CDs recoprded by more or less professional Players is not alway easy, although you are prepared to listen hundreds of times.

In any case it is very time consuming.

 

I mself have received this kind of help by the Dutch Player Henk van Aalten, who has recorded for me a first CD mainly with Irish Tunes, more or less as a Teaching CD, explaining the Tune, advising about some special fingering and other difficulties, playing slowly the parts and some more difficult passage and finally playing at speed. That has been a very efficient help.

 

Alos working a CD-Rom Tutor from Ireland has been helpfuil

 

All these observations make me proppose, to oipen a new Forum, dedicated to the

"International Concertina Music Interchanging Players" or ICMIP or I invite you, to comunicate me your offers and demands for

 

- Teaching favourite Tunes

Learning favourite Tunes

 

I am ready to bring these offers and demands togehter, to intermediate and to organiye, alos with the help of the new formu chapter I have said before.

 

Players willing to help and teach, should be prepared to record on Tape, CD or ND their favourite Tunes in the way described, when above speaking about Henk´s CD. The exact recording mean should be agreed according to the avaibility from both parts. Eventually also the PC could be used with music recorded in MP3 format.

 

The Player who wants to learn, should at first place be reqady to work and to inform about his progress.

He might be able to offer his favourite tunes and if not in compensation he might offer recordings of his local, regional, national Traditional Music.

 

There are other ideas which come to my mind spontanously and which might be examined and developped, like as :

 

- An annual Meeting of the participants of the ICMIP Forum

- Som,e kind of Concourses and Awards to the most active Participants.

- Recording periodically CD´s with the Tunes perforemd by the Learners

- Group Playing via Internet

 

and whatever you might propose.

 

This projhect - if it comes true - might ioncrease the efficieny of Learning, win new Concertina Adapts, and friends, etc.

 

I mself, a Player born in Germany, living in mainly in Spain, I am leraning Irish and Basque Tunes and Dances, some Klezmer and some Russina Tunes.

Actually I am working on a CD titled "Anglo in the DArk" performed by Harry Scurfield, playing some French Music, some Klezmer, some Jazzish, all with iontersting Chord playing and Octave Playing, He has been helpig me already a bit over the phone.

In the next future I think to arrange some songs performed by Harry Bellafonte, e.g. "Farewell Jamaica", nice, sweet, soft but moving rythm............

 

As you see, IO am openm minded and for me there are not one favourite Tune, almost any music can emopte me and enrich me.

 

And this brings me to the idea, that the Professional Players might also be approached if they could dedicate to ICMIP some teacahing CD with or without payment.

 

Well, please think about my proposalm, let me have your comments, critics and impüroving ideas and hopefully let´s start..............

 

My e.mail address JopachimDelp@aol.com

 

My postal address :

 

J.Delp

P.O.Box, 39

E-20.400 Tolosa (Gipuzkoa)

Spain

 

I am waiting for your CD´s TApes or MD´s or MP3 records.

 

Thank you for your attention !

 

Cordially Joachim Delp

 

.

 

And Frankl Edgle edits A Traditional Irish Tune Bool with CD, recording the tunes played at a lower speed and at desriable speed.

[David Barnert]

Perhaps with exception UK and Ireland, most of us will not have a reguzlkar chance to meet other Concertina Players and to particpate in sessions.

As I mentioned in another thread (actually, two), don't seek other concertinas for sessions. Seek fiddlers and other instruments. One concertina in a session is plenty (I fight the urge to say "more than enough") but concertina makes a great combination with fiddle, flute, or what-have-you.

The Playerts living out of the Anglo-Saxon and Celtic Aereas, must not necesaryly know about irish Music, Morris Dance and other Anglo Traditional Music.

{snip}

In the next future I think to arrange some songs performed by Harry Bellafonte, e.g. "Farewell Jamaica", nice, sweet, soft but moving rythm............

You may not know that "Jamaica Farewell" has been used as a Morris Dance tune to accompany the dance "Highland Mary" (which in that case is renamed "Island Mary").

[JoachimDelp]

Dear Mr. Dave Barnett,

thank you for your comments.

 

I understand perfectly well, what you are saying about more than one Concertina Players in Sessions and I accept fully

 

BUT

 

what I wanted to say really was, that players outisede from "Concertina Aereas" have rearely a opportunity to meet other Concertina Players and to benefit from their experience and to learn.

 

Farewell Jamaica :

 

That sounds very interesting to me, what you are saying about this tune converted in Island Mary.

 

Can you give me any hint where to find this version ?

 

Thanks and Regards

Joachim Delp

[A.D. Homan]

Dear Mr. Dave Barnett,

thank you for your comments.

 

I understand perfectly well, what you are saying about more than one Concertina Players in Sessions and I accept fully

 

BUT

 

what I wanted to say really was, that players outisede from "Concertina Aereas" have rearely a opportunity to meet other Concertina Players and to benefit from their experience and to learn.

 

Farewell Jamaica :

 

That sounds very interesting to me, what you are saying about this tune converted in Island Mary.

 

Can you give me any hint where to find this version ?

 

Thanks and Regards

Joachim Delp

Hi Joachim,

Have you thought about attending the Scandinavian Squeeze-In?

If you're up for longer travel distances, the Northeast Squeeze-In would be the kind of event you are looking for.

Andy

[JoachimDelp]

Hi Andy,

 

I have attended the Scandinavian Squeeze in 2002. Great experience ?

 

I had registered for the same 2003 and could not attend at the end and I regret it very much.

 

Have you been there, Jim told me about an South African Anglo Player, performing astonishingly all kind of music on his 30 button Anglo. He is called Zak.

Would like to get in contact witjh hinmj, can you helpo ?

 

I attended also KILVE 2003 and participated in a worlshop given by Harr Scurfield, which I am still benefitting.

 

BUT ...........

 

that is not the question, Currently it is quite an effort to travel once a year and teh rest of year ?

 

SSQI is a weekend, just a weekend, and the other 362 days of trhe year ?

 

Thnak you for comment and if you have made any recording of Scandinavian Squeeze in 2003, may I have a copy ?

 

I hope to be there in 2004.

 

Cordially Joachim

[David Barnert]

Farewell Jamaica :

 

That sounds very interesting to me, what you are saying about this tune converted in Island Mary.

 

Can you give me any hint where to find this version ?

Joachim, I'm not certain I understand your question, but I hope this helps. First of all, the song is called "Jamaica Farewell," not "Farewell Jamaica." No big deal.

 

I have uploaded below music for both Highland Mary and Island Mary (Jamaica Farewell).

 

The music for Highland Mary is as it appears in the "Bampton" section of Lionel Bacon's "A Handbook of Morris Dances." Although it is printed in A, everyone here plays it in G. Also, it is generally played in more of a 12/8 kind of rhythm (each pair of 8th notes is played as a quarter and an 8th). The notation "Play: A.(AB2)4" means (if you're playing for the dance) play the A section "once to yourself" and then play 4 times the sequence ABB.

 

The music for Island Mary is just Jamaica Farewell played so that it fits the dance (same route as above, A.(AB2)4). I've never seen it written down until just now, when I did it. I had heard the song many times, and when I heard Morris musicians playing it, I just started playing along by ear. The chords are pretty standard, with the chromatics in the last line an optional affectation.

 

Does this answer your question?

[JoachimDelp]

David,

thank you once more for kind attention.

Perhaps it is me, who is unable to explain correctly, due my not correct English

or because I am just too complicated.

 

The point is :

 

I understand that your opinion that one Conceretina player in a session is just enough. ( I hoipe you do not think it maybe too much)

I understand your opinion and can agree with you at least in part.

 

But, my intention is to promote INTERCHANGE OF FAVOURITE TUNES, I would like that more advance players would help beginners, something more practical and pragmatic than just theoretic discussions.

 

I think we Concertina Players are nice, helpfuil people and we are happy about any new comer and do not wnat to loose him.

 

I wonder if my proposal really cannot be understood, as I express it, or it is just too many words and nobody finishes to read it or simply there is no interst for.

 

In any case, I offer my assistance to any begionner in the limits proper to my degree of experience.

 

Thank you very much for the information you are giving abnout the Tune Jamaica Farewell.

 

I have a low sight problem and it is difficult or almost impossible to read the notes in a really usefukl way.

 

I ask you kindliest, you as an advanced member of this comunity, pleqase play the music for me in the differnte versions you know it and record it on a Tape, CD or MD, and if you can, please give soime assitance about the difficulties you nsee for a advanced beginner, he might find, trying to play the tune on a 30 button Anglo, Jeffries outlay.

 

Eventually you couold play the parts in a slower speed and than the whole in a normal speed.

 

This could be a start for my project, which I think can be useful to many of us.

 

I offer to compensate your efforts with some Basque Music, recorded and performed by more or less professional players and also a trial made by myself for you.

 

Thank you once more and please forgive my bad Englilsh and also typing errors, since I cannot see properly the keyboard.

 

Kind regards

Joachim Delp

[David Barnert]

David,

thank you once more for kind attention.

Perhaps it is me, who is unable to explain correctly, due my not correct English

or because I am just too complicated.

There does seem to be a bit of a language problem here, but since you undoubtedly speak more languages than I do, I cannot hold you at fault. We will make do with what we can.

 

The point is :

 

I understand that your opinion that one Conceretina player in a session is just enough. ( I hoipe you do not think it maybe too much)

I understand your opinion and can agree with you at least in part.

 

But, my intention is to promote INTERCHANGE OF FAVOURITE TUNES, I would like that more advance players would help beginners, something more practical and pragmatic than just theoretic discussions.

 

I understand, but this can only be satisfied if you have more concertina players near you (or you like to travel). You must work with what you have. Hopefully if there are no concertina players around, you can play with other instruments. Even trade favorite tunes and learn tricks like ornamentation and phrasing.

 

Thank you very much for the information you are giving abnout the Tune Jamaica Farewell.

 

I have a low sight problem and it is difficult or almost impossible to read the notes in a really usefukl way.

 

I hope you realize that by clicking on the tiny image of the music you will see a full screen version. You can even print it or use your computer to display it magnified.

 

If that still doesn't help...

 

I ask you kindliest, you as an advanced member of this comunity, pleqase play the music for me in the differnte versions you know it and record it on a Tape, CD or MD, and if you can, please give soime assitance about the difficulties you nsee for a advanced beginner, he might find, trying to play the tune on a 30 button Anglo, Jeffries outlay.

 

The easiest would be to e-mail you a sound file, either MIDI or QuickTime. E-mail me privately and tell me which is more convenient for you. They are simple tunes and should not pose much difficulty once you know the notes. By the way, I do not play Anglo Concertina, and cannot help you with problems specific to the instrument.

[JoachimDelp]

David,

I feel we are misunderstanding completely.

 

No I do not want to travel as much as needed.

No there are not enough Concertina Players around.

 

For the moment in Spainmn IO know about one and heard about another one.

 

In Germnay might be about 40 players.

 

My proposal is to overcome this difficulty by interchjanging Recordings, proivate recordings performed by ourselfeds, helping us each other to improve our skill and knowledge.

 

In any case thank you sinderely for all your pacience and your offer to sned me some sound file.

 

I shall mail you priovately tomorrow, sionce it is now near midnight and I feel really tired.

 

No I di not get aware that I could magnify your note sheet. Thanks for the advise4.

 

Good night !

 

Kind regards

Joachim

[JoachimDelp]

Hello again,

my proposal does not find for the moment the response I thought.

 

I insist :

 

Where are the beginners needing help in form of special Tutor Recortdings, which I have got for the Anglo Concertina ?

 

Are there no Semi-advanced Players wanting to learn new Tunes, who would appreciate that a more advanced player would assisst them with a recording which could explain and advise aboutr fingering and play the dificult passages at a slower speed ?

 

Nobody intertstzed to interchange ionternationally tunes and get into a closer contact with players over the world ?

 

I have received by private mail one or the other offer for help in my prohect. Thanbk you.

 

Forgive if I am bopring you.

 

Kind regards

Joachim Delp

[Alan Day]

I can understand the difficuly with this request,but I would be interested in other players comments on my reply to Joachim.

As you know I have recently made a tape for beginners anglo, in it I take fairly simple tunes and explain how they are played.This is comparativly easy for a simple tune and the chords to be explained and where to find them.It is much more difficult for a more complicated tune.Lots of things have to be taken into consideration,which direction are the chords in, does the tune let you play that chord in that direction.Do you have to play the tune in an opposite direction because of this.Have you sufficient air to play that note and chord in that direction.It goes on through the tune untill you reach the end.

I can honestly say that some full chorded tunes can take weeks to sort out.An example, "Morning has broken"(Cat Stevens) with full chords.How could you explain to somebody how to put that together,it would be up to the individual player and the layout of his concertina to work out.

Joachim is under the impression that he is boring you ,but I think it is much more difficult than he thinks.

What do you think.

Regards

Alan

[JoachimDelp]

Alan,

thank you for your reply, I find it to be very reasonable.

 

It´s true, that when proposing my topic, I have been extremely enthustiac abd have written it spontanously, withpout thinking too much.

 

When speaking about chorded Tunes, I understand your arguments, almost a 100 %, since I myself I am working now for weeks on a Parade March, I have listened on a CD titled "Anglo in the Dark" perrformed by Hary Scurfield on an Anlo with more than 30 keys, possibly 36 or 38, and possibly on a G/D tuned one, where I am trying to play it on 30 key C/G instrrument, whjich in my opinion is running ouit of air quickjer than other I have been tryiong.

 

If I would ask Harry how to play it, (I have done it) it would be naturally very difficult for him to advise me what to do. Nevertheless he is trying, and we will see.

Playing and speaking on the phone, at least Ireceived some more basic advises, which helped me to improve what IU could getch (hunt) from the CD, which I have listened probably more than a hundred of times. I learned at least some triplet, I couldnt define before, and so I got some kind of encouragement to go ahead with my proposal, which possibly even for an advanced player is really easy.

 

As you can understand from what I am saying, I am now aware of each opf the difficulöties you mention.

 

Although it is right, that I did not consider these difficulties when speacking about fully chorded tunes, I still believe that some advise is always possible, but furthermore I had probably in mind more Irish Tunes, played in Sessions by an essemble of ionstruments, like as Fiddle, Flute, Mandolin, Bodhran at a high speed, some few chords.

For the moement I am still convinced that there more advance players could advise and help slowing down a bit the difficult passages.

 

I know I guess, almost all Tutors for Beginners and there very good ones,some of them with perfectly well prepared Tapes and CD´s, but I find there is huge gap for the next inmediate steps, which is of more specific weight if the Learner lives in an Aereea wher the concertina is almost uinknown.

I feel supported in my idea by the fact that Frank Edgley, whom I consider to be a

passionate teacher and Concertina Maker, has edited aside of his good and easy to follo Tutor wiuth his very comprehensivve CD, dedicating an important chapter to ornamentations, has edited a Tune Boik with Tradional >Irish Tunes, he considers, are frequently played in sessions and has edited at least one CD on which about a 50 % of the Tunes appaering in the Bookk are played twice, once at a slower speed and once at the normal speed. And if he has not done it until now, I know that he has the project to edit a next one.

 

I have learned quite a few Tunes from there, still working and realising the necessary effort which you makes enjoy when art the end you get it.

 

And up to here we are speaking only about the aspect of Teaching/Learning.

Almost more important for me when writing the Topic it has been :

 

INTERCHANGE, HUIMAN CONRTACT, SHARING THE JOY, PERHAPS MAKING FRIENDSHIP, RECEIVING FRESH, NEW IMPULSES,

 

thinkling uop to a certain degree in more comunication between players from the Southern Latin Countries, Spain, Italy, France, South Americaand the Anglo-Saxxon, Celtic influence Players.

 

There is a lot of Music out ther, whcih could be well perforrmed on the concertina.

 

Me too, I invite you once more to let me some more replies.

 

Toi you Alan, I thank fromheart for your attention and readyness to help.

 

Joachim Delp

[JoachimDelp]

And one more post-data :

 

Another lived example that there are ways of interchange, teaching, learnign :

 

Hen van Aslten, who is a better Musician than me, with difference, possibly is not a reealyy advanced player, he is better than me, whom I feel that I am slightlöy advanced player, which means that I knw almost sure and quiock where are the notes on my instrument, who tries to play across the rows, who hunts nto too difficult tunes froimthe CDs, alwasy with effort and time, who is winning in speed, etc.

 

Henk prepared for a me CD, really well made, more than necesary, but enjoyable, where he performs the Tunes he best controlled at this time, played them in parts, explainging some particular fingering, he would recommend, atnd finally at the speed he is able to perform.

He commented to me, that it has been a certain effort, but an effort which helped him also, sionce he had to practise enopugh to make more perfect his playing.

 

I have learned almost all thos tunes, and now whenever possible we can play it together when there is a chance to meet, and I can offer this CD to other players .

 

This CD was bornm due to my low sight problem, but it is useful to anybody who prefers to learn by ear rather than from the note sheet.

++++++++

And there comes opne more aspect to my mind :

 

Considering the bunch of slightly and slightly more advance players, withoiut frequent and easy contact to Irish Music :

 

When interchanging music with other, there is a chance for critics and corrections. and suggestions how to it better.

 

To explain better :

 

Let´s suppose that I would have done the effort instead of Henk, my playing might result more or less correct, but perhaps or most probaly rthere would be a certain lack of character, Irish character, since I have not sipped this musci quais with the mother milk, and making listen such a record to any Irish player, apart of bein astonished and wondering which tune it maight be, he could be polite, tolerant and generouis and advise me how to do it better.

 

Reagrds to you all.

Joachim Delp

[Helen]

Joachim,

 

I agree with what Alan has said.

 

I think you would best be served by one of the gizmos (mechanical gadgets) that play music at half speed or some at several different slower speeds. That way you could have ANY tune that you wanted at a slower speed (instead of only the ones people would send to you).

 

I'm not up on these devices, but surely other people on this forum could give some direction.

 

Also, I think people might be willing to send you tapes if they could just make a copy of some tape they already have. Having to make a new tape and at half speed may be more of a project than many people can undertake at this time.

 

Perhaps you want to start a resource library. If you ask people for a tape without their needing to play at different speeds, some may help you out.

 

I'm such a novice, I'm not at this stage. I will however try to make something for you.

 

Helen

Edited November 17, 2003 by Helen

[David Barnert]

Your computer can do it with the right software. There's one called "Amazing Slow Downer." It's available at http://www.ronimusic.com

[Sharron]

Another thing to add about the *amazing slow downer* is that it has a free download which will let you play the 1st and 2nd track off a cd plus a small section of an mp3 file. For irish music a small section is normally enough to get a full tune once through.

I use this programme for most of my learning. I also use it to copy and compile cds. I find it so easy to use.

I play or should I say played fiddle until the concertina came along, and you can hear bow direction changes/bellows/ornamentation/phrasing very distinctly when slowed down. I find it really helps to hear what is going on within the music played. You *sometimes* don't always hear *everything* at full speed.

 

The drawback of someone playing for someone else and describing what they are doing is that it is *their opinion* on how it *should* be played, and that will differ from person to person depending on style/ornamentation/button layouts/experience, etc.

 

I have a lot of cds with the same tune on them and they all are different in the way they are played. Some I like more than others and other people will I am sure like the ones I like least.

 

I think the best way is to listen to as much as possible then find a recording and check it is in a session friendly key. Use the slow downer programme to alter the key if necessary. Then slow it way down and take it in 1 second bites. I am always amazed how many notes are in just 1 second. Then keep extending by 1 second. Analyse the movements necessary for those 1 seconds bits, re-arrange as necessary and on to the next bit.

 

works for me

 

Sharron (only my opinion)

[JoachimDelp]

Thank you, Helen for your reply,

"The Slöowdowner Softweare" can be a good iudea for my personal learning process.

Thank you Dave for informaing, where to get it.

 

I agree also that recording a learnign Tape is a real Task.

I did not pretend to this extrent.

 

Me also I get still very nervous when recor´ding trying to do it perfect and thinkting in the critics of the listener.

I try to forget about the recording and the receiver of the recording,.

I start the recorder, forget it, playing away any melody which comes to my mind, and later after this "warm up, I am better able to record what I want to do.

 

But there more advance players who could help opther to leran more or less difficult tunes, - eventually ex cluding the fully chorded ones. Not really prepareing a Learning Tape, but advising about some of the difficulties, and the difficult passages (bitsd) slowly.

 

I thanlkk you for being willing to record somethiong for me , Helen, I shall do it fopr you too, and lets enjoy and smile and know each other better.

 

In your objections you forget that I have insisted all the time aslo about the human aspect, about the chance of making new friends and receoibving new tunes, sometimes surprising and strange and not always limited to Irish, Morrism etc.

 

And one more point, I did not think in myself exclusively<, I thought always in sgharuing my experience.

 

By the other hand a "Library " open to anyione could be intersting too.

 

IO shall wait a little bit more and than I shall bring this tio an end, once made all teh conlcusions from the contribuitoions here received and perhaps >I shall make a final proposal to whom it might interst.

 

Thansk and Regards

Joachim

[Sharron]

Hi Joachim I had another thought

 

Could you tell us all what concertina you are playing? How many buttons/layout, etc. That way we would all know the way you would need to learn the tunes. For instance my last concertina had 2 alternative push/pull C#. My new one only has 1 and is not the way round I am used to. I am having to re-learn the fingering necessary for the few tunes that I have. On the plus side I have another 2 alternative notes I didn't have before either, so I have to incorporate them too

 

I think it would help if you told us as a recording won't work if the fingering is different.

 

Sharron