Suttner A2 Or A3?

[bill_mchale]

Flexibility, not dogmatism is the answer to any awkward sequence of notes on the concertina. There is a local concertina player (30 button) who learned his fingering style from a certain tutor. He, for whatever reason, will not deviate from it. This means that the way he plays the B-C#-D sequence of notes "draw B-push C# (with the same finger), and draw D. This makes tunes like the slide Connie Walsh VERY difficult and awkward sounding. If he would use the push B and push D, his playing would be much easier for him. Not that I would recommend wandering all over the keyboard and not having set "default buttons." But for ease of playing and phrasing, one should come up with an efficient way to play certain note patterns that occur frequently, even if they do not fall within your chosen "default button" patterns. In other words, even if you usually play a draw B, and D, you should consider a press B and D for the fairly frequent B-C#-D sequences, as Craig mentioned. (At least on a 30 button) As I use the G row for my "default buttons" this run is very easy for me, but I very frequently cross over to the first two buttons of the L.H. C row for certain limited note sequences.

 

I agree that flexibility is the key. I actually think it might be a good idea to learn how to play the basic

scales multiple ways. When I figure a tune out on the concertina, I frequently spend a little time playing

with it finding out what allows the tune to be played with the rhytem that I want in the tune. B-C#-D is a sequence I almost always play on the push but other note sequences I might vary. I will also choose notes based on the ornamentation I might want to put into a tune; for example, if I am playing the Concertina Reel, I like to roll the high D triplets in the B part; currently I prefer playing it D-D-G-D which is done on the G row alternating between the left and the right hand. I could play it D-D-F-D all on the right hand side, but I like the sound of the G there better. Of course this also means that the A that precedes the triplet is easier to play on the G row than the one on the C row (where I normally play it).

 

So anyway, I might spend more time learning a tune, but once I have it... well I am generally happy with the progress I have made over the last year and a half.

 

--

Bill

[Michael Reid]

With the "Noel Hill" layout, you can still do a very smooth B-C#-D draw... As you do today, use the left hand for the B and D, and use your first finger on your right hand for the C# (instead of the 2nd finger -presumably -

Craig,

 

Can you remind me what the Noel Hill layout is? As you said earlier, it's dual C#'s on the first button, but what's on the second button? I recall Noel expressing some mild regret over his layout because he sacrificed something. (Perhaps he has no D# whatsoever?)

 

The layout I'm proposing is F#(low)/C# on the first button and C#/D# on the second. (I've listed the push note first.) I think this has four things going for it:

• It's only one note different from standard Jeffries, so it should be easy for those already accustomed to playing that system.
  
• The one note that differs from standard Jeffries replaces the push D#, which I've yet to find a use for in playing Irish trad -- so I imagine that others wouldn't miss it either.
  
• It's advantageous, I think, to have the critical C# available on two different buttons, because that makes it easier to avoid jumps or unusual fingering patterns.
  
• And it provides the low F# on the push, so you can do fast triplets like the F#-E-D in the third measure of Cooley's Reel.
  

I'm not arguing that others should adopt this layout. But before I have an instrument made with this layout, I'm wondering if there are flaws in it that I've overlooked, assuming it's used for playing Irish trad.

[bill_mchale]

With the "Noel Hill" layout, you can still do a very smooth B-C#-D draw... As you do today, use the left hand for the B and D, and use your first finger on your right hand for the C# (instead of the 2nd finger -presumably -

Craig,

 

Can you remind me what the Noel Hill layout is? As you said earlier, it's dual C#'s on the first button, but what's on the second button? I recall Noel expressing some mild regret over his layout because he sacrificed something. (Perhaps he has no D# whatsoever?)

 

The layout I'm proposing is F#(low)/C# on the first button and C#/D# on the second. (I've listed the push note first.) I think this has four things going for it:

• It's only one note different from standard Jeffries, so it should be easy for those already accustomed to playing that system.
  
• The one note that differs from standard Jeffries replaces the push D#, which I've yet to find a use for in playing Irish trad -- so I imagine that others wouldn't miss it either.
  
• It's advantageous, I think, to have the critical C# available on two different buttons, because that makes it easier to avoid jumps or unusual fingering patterns.
  
• And it provides the low F# on the push, so you can do fast triplets like the F#-E-D in the third measure of Cooley's Reel.
  

I'm not arguing that others should adopt this layout. But before I have an instrument made with this layout, I'm wondering if there are flaws in it that I've overlooked, assuming it's used for playing Irish trad.

 

This is exactly the layout I have been contemplating for my Suttner. The only disadvantage that I can see over the traditional Jefferies layout is that it will be no where near as common. So if you pick up a friend's concertina you might end up doing a G-D#-E or D#-E-D triplet . The obvious solution is to practice the tunes both with and with out those triplets.

 

--

Bill

[Dana Johnson]

With the "Noel Hill" layout, you can still do a very smooth B-C#-D draw... As you do today, use the left hand for the B and D, and use your first finger on your right hand for the C# (instead of the 2nd finger -presumably -

Craig,

 

Can you remind me what the Noel Hill layout is? As you said earlier, it's dual C#'s on the first button, but what's on the second button? I recall Noel expressing some mild regret over his layout because he sacrificed something. (Perhaps he has no D# whatsoever?)

 

The layout I'm proposing is F#(low)/C# on the first button and C#/D# on the second. (I've listed the push note first.) I think this has four things going for it:

• It's only one note different from standard Jeffries, so it should be easy for those already accustomed to playing that system.
  
• The one note that differs from standard Jeffries replaces the push D#, which I've yet to find a use for in playing Irish trad -- so I imagine that others wouldn't miss it either.
  
• It's advantageous, I think, to have the critical C# available on two different buttons, because that makes it easier to avoid jumps or unusual fingering patterns.
  
• And it provides the low F# on the push, so you can do fast triplets like the F#-E-D in the third measure of Cooley's Reel.
  

I'm not arguing that others should adopt this layout. But before I have an instrument made with this layout, I'm wondering if there are flaws in it that I've overlooked, assuming it's used for playing Irish trad.

Noel's Layout is essentially the standard Wheatstone Layout, but his only rh D# replaced by the second C#on the first button of the outside row. The second button is I believe, a G/A. On the left side he sacrificed his Low F for a Draw Low A. If he could have had it all, he would have prefferred to keep the D# and F, but he simply makes musucal adjustments where needed. If he'd been switching things on a Jeffries, he would have done something different. With all the talk of lots of extra buttons, it is pretty amazing what Noel does with 30. Keep in mind tha Noel's choices take into account his basic fingering. Otherr basic fingerings or styles of playing may call for different choices. Lastly, many things initially seem difficult on the anglo, especially regarding the normal lack of dexterity of some fingers, but practicing the hard things makes them much easier, and you a more capable player.