No Smoking

[Peter Stephenson]

Our members of parliament have this week (14th Feb) voted by a majority of 200 to ban smoking in all public enclosed spaces including pubs and private clubs. Good news for me as I have had to stay out of Smokey places these last few months due to lung problems. The ban starts in the summer of 2007.

What effects have similar ban had on the Southern Ireland music sessions and in New York etc? Does the music stop while the smoking musicians nip out for a drag or what? Is the atmosphere (craic) better or has the ban killed some of the fun? It has been said that some sessions have reverted back to people’s homes.

[groeswenphil]

Is the atmosphere (craic) better or has the ban killed some of the fun? It has been said that some sessions have reverted back to people’s homes.

 

 

Visited the Irish Republic last Summer, staying in a wonderful little fishing village; Port Magee, Kerry.

 

The local pub, the Bridge Bar, was crowded almost every evening. A local duet held court most nights, with visiting musicians encouraged to join in. One evening, all of the locals, including school children joined in....and even though the room was crowded, they still found room for traditional dancing.

 

Smokers...........well, I wouldn't exactly say that I felt sorry for them, but they certainly looked and acted like an under class. They either had to sidel out the front door into the street, or they went into a strange outdoor / indoor area around the back. This was in effect a sort of outdoor store room that had a few tables and chairs and sun shades..........and it didn't look very nice there at all. I wonder how smoking as a fashion will ever survive after the ban. It just doesn't look cool, fashionable, sociable or even practical when you're left skulking outside with all the fun happening inside. Also, I'm wondering how many young people are introduced to smoking in a pub. Will this cut down the numbers of young people taking up smoking?

 

As for the music, and the craic.....fantastic. As for getting home later smelling clean.....even better.

Personally I think it's a shame that we have to wait another year here in the U.K.....although Scotland gets its ban next month.

 

And one other thing..........I wonder what passive smoking does to the lungs of a concertina?

 

Phil

[Mark Evans]

Can't speak to NYC, but here in the Greater Boston Area there was much wailing, nashing of teeth and soothe sayers predicting the end of civilization. None of it happened. Smokers step out to the street burn one, talk a bit and step back into the fun.

 

I quit attending a mid-week session in a privite club that was like stepping back into the smoky haze of my youth because once having tasted smoke free sessions I realized it wasn't worth the damage to my lungs. From time to time I see members of that session at other gatherings. I miss making music with them on a regular basis , but not their smoke .

[Pete Dickey]

I also stayed in Portmagee two or three years ago and what a superb place it is. The band in the Bridge may have been the same and I was sorry I hadn't taken an instrument to join in. I chatted to the fiddle player later who said I should have introduced myself earlier and joined in although I must admit that I would have struggled on a concertina but may have managed on a guitar. The Fiddle player then was a guy also called Pete and came from Liverpool although living locally and teaching fiddle. He posted some music over to me a few weeks later - I must reciprocate.

 

On the smoking question I first came across the ban shortly after it was introduced in Ireland, on a weekend trip to Dublin with my son's Rugby club. I was thinking that there were an awful lot of ladies hanging around the streets near the pubs and why did the police allow it. Moaning about it to someone they suggested they were smokers and not ladies of the night

 

Pete

[Guest]

Smoking was banned a couple of years ago in Australia anywhere that served or prepared food (which includes most but not all pubs). There was a great outcry. Business dropped off when it first came into effect, and then slowly returned to normal. Soon smoking in all pubs will be banned. The 1st of March will see smoking banned at all train stations, bus stops and tram stops.

 

As a smoker, I have always tried to be considerate of non-smokers, and have no trouble stepping outside for a quick smoke. However this rarely happens when I'm at a session as I'm usually having way too much fun.

 

Just a few random neurons firing

 

Cheers

Morgana

[Peter Stephenson]

I think a total smoking ban here is the most sensible as it gives the smokers no excuse to boycott so have to 'stay put' and I think that inclusion is always better than exclusion. From what you folks are saying, after the initial shock of loosing ones civil rights things mellow out and people find they can have a good time without a ciggy just as drivers have learned to have a session in a pub without getting elephants. But like Phil I am at a loss to understand why we have to wait a year for enfocement, how long does it take to collect in the ash trays ?

Good to hear from you Dick from Ballykillferret, do you still sing The German musicianer ?

Chris and Anne wandered into a session in Buxton out of the blue last year and we all had a cracking night even though Chris didn't sing The Punch & Judy song.

[David Barnert]

As a nonsmoker, I am happy with the move toward more and more complete bans on smoking, but I see that the "law of unintended consequences" is beginning to rear its ugly head. It is impossible to get in and out of many buildings these days without passing through a cloud of smoke or wading through a pile of discarded buts just outside the door.

 

A hospital where I used to work built a "butt hut" in a courtyard which was the only legal place to smoke on the property. But it was just a roof over an open wooden structure (like a gazebo) and was entirely exposed to the weather. As soon as it got cold out, the smokers started hanging blankets and sheets from the roof to surround it. I can't imagine that the fire department would have been happy to see folks lighting up in such a space surrounded by freely blowing linens.

[Peter Stephenson]

Indeed this is a point worth mentioning. Having banned smoking from a place of work how far can that ban be stetched outside to protect workers entering the building. The hospital I attend (for lung function tests) has extended the ban to the whole of the grounds, car parks and all. But getting back to pub sessions, I've heard that,in S Ireland, the smokers out front like to have a window open to hear the music, if the wind is in the wrong direction would this contravene the ban?

[Mark Evans]

many buildings these days without passing through a cloud of smoke or wading through a pile of discarded buts just outside the door.

 

That has become a bone of contention at work. All of the academic buildings are littered with butts and at peak usage times you still get a good dose of smoke on your way in and out of the buildings. Where are folks who want to smoke to go?

 

There does need to be a middle ground (a little thought and respect on both sides). One town in Massachusetts as even banned smoke on the beach . They state health reasons and litter.

[Gerry]

Our members of parliament have this week (14th Feb) voted by a majority of 200 to ban smoking in all public enclosed spaces including pubs and private clubs. Good news for me as I have had to stay out of Smokey places these last few months due to lung problems. The ban starts in the summer of 2007.

What effects have similar ban had on the Southern Ireland music sessions and in New York etc? Does the music stop while the smoking musicians nip out for a drag or what? Is the atmosphere (craic) better or has the ban killed some of the fun? It has been said that some sessions have reverted back to people’s homes.

I have to say the immediate impression I got when visiting Dublin last year was:

If the streets of London are paved with gold then the streets of Dublin are paved with - Cigarette buts!

They were in and around every doorway, and standing in the debris was hordes of power smokers. You know - standing in their shirt sleeves in the biting wind and smoking their cigs as quickly as possible. They didn't look happy.

 

As a 40+ a day smoker who is trying to give up (now 22+ years and still winning), I welcome the ban.

[Nigel]

many buildings these days without passing through a cloud of smoke or wading through a pile of discarded buts just outside the door.

 

If the streets of London are paved with gold then the streets of Dublin are paved with - Cigarette buts!

 

There does need to be a middle ground (a little thought and respect on both sides). One town in Massachusetts as even banned smoke on the beach . They state health reasons and litter.

I wonder if they have a point.

While I am looking forward to the ban here in Northern Ireland, I agree there does need to be consideration on both sides. Surely a smoking room, with ventilation and bins, is not too much to ask for.

[Guest]

And not all smokers throw their butts on the ground, hang around doorways or are inconsiderate. There are plenty of us around who do the right thing.

 

I understand that non-smokers don't want to be around smoke. However I do agree that consideration needs to come from both sides.

 

Just my two cents worth.

Morgana

[Chris Timson]

And not all smokers throw their butts on the ground, hang around doorways or are inconsiderate. There are plenty of us around who do the right thing.

Thinking about it, there ought to be as marketing opportunity here for mobile ashtrays - asbestos lined pouches that smokers could drop their ash and fag-ends in, sort of a smokers equivalent to the pooper scooper. I would imagine them looking rather like concertina bellows. The ultimate fashion accessory for concertina players who smoke - a mobile ash tray with choice of Jeffries or Wheatstone bellows papers.

 

Chris

[geoffwright]

As an ex-smoker and frequent eater-out, I was never happy with the original proposal - all that would have happened is that less pubs would serve food.

[Richard Morse]

I understand that non-smokers don't want to be around smoke. However I do agree that consideration needs to come from both sides.

At the risk of rath from smokers, I've always thought of smoking as a "privilege" and not a "right". And often the maintenance of privileges is at a cost which I believe should be borne by the people enjoying the previleges rather than the ones having their rights infringed upon.

 

This is where "consideration" takes on the additional meaning.... Who will pay for nice places to smoke in? I think that it's very generous for businesses (which can afford to) to provide nice smoking places (most probably to retain customers and employees). But what of establishments which can't afford to? It seems to me that non-smoking people are very considerate and put up with a lot. Why can't smokers be more considerate (pay towards such a conducive spot to be made, smoke far enough away and take their butts with them, or just NOT SMOKE)?

 

I respectfully disagree that consideration NEEDS to come from both sides, though I believe that things would work most smoothly with consideration coming from both sides. I disagree with people who believe that smoker's habits SHOULD/MUST be paid for entirely by non-smokers.

[Roger Gawley]

There seems to be quite a bit of missing the point here. Tobacco is a dangerous drug that would never be allowed if you tried to introduce it today. It is here and cannot be abolished tomorrow but it is on the way out.

 

Consideration has to be for addicts and semi-addicts. It is not easy to give up once you have started but that is the aim: all smokers should give up and no new smokers should start. Of course that is not going to happen quickly and not without pain but it is going to happen.

[Cream-T]

Thinking about it, there ought to be as marketing opportunity here for mobile ashtrays - asbestos lined pouches that smokers could drop their ash and fag-ends in, sort of a smokers equivalent to the pooper scooper.

 

Not quite concertina bellows, but: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4730442.stm

[Dave Weinstein]

Washington State voters passed an initiative this past year which not only bans smoking inside businesses (including restaurants and bars), it also bans smoking with 25 feet of the doors or open windows.

 

I should add that prior to that, my local session was smoke free anyway. I won't go play at a smoking venue; I don't care to cart home a bellows load of tobacco smoke.

 

--Dave