Charlotte Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 When I bought my concertina I hadn't decided on what kind of music I would play. But I now feel that Irish is the way to go.... So I have found that there are at least 3 types: jigs, reels, hornpipes. Now, jigs have a signature of 6/8 (correct term?), but reels and hornpipes both have signatures of 4/4. So what is the difference between a reel and a hornpipe? I have also come across "Slip jig" and "Slide"???. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Stallard Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Hornpipes are usually played more like they were 2/4, meaning a bouncier up-beat polka kind of sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Hornpipes are usually played more like they were 2/4, meaning a bouncier up-beat polka kind of sound. I think of hornpipes as being in 4/4 and reels in 2/4, but I guess it all depends on what you think those numbers mean. That's been discussed in other threads on C.net -- to no unanimous conclusion, -- so I won't try to repeat it here. But hornpipes in Irish music are usually "bouncy". Funny that I usually think of polkas as quite the opposite... fast and regular. But that's not quite right. Polkas also have a "bounce", but it's a very different sort of bounce from that of the hornpipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reid Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 My take: Sometimes it's hard to distinguish a hornpipe from a reel that's played on the slow side. Usually, but not always, hornpipes are played such that in pairs of eighth notes, the first one will be held longer than is indicated by strictly following the meter, and the second note will be shorter. Sometimes people notate hornpipes as having a "dotted" rhythm (i.e., pairs in which the first note is a dotted eighth and the second is a sixteenth), but, strictly speaking, that notation exaggerates the rhythm. Hornpipes also make heavy use of triplets, and the two parts of the tune (the "A" and "B" parts) customarily end with three strong beats. Slip jigs are in 9/8 time, having three beats per bar, each beat consisting of either three eighth notes, or one quarter plus one eighth note. Slides are usually notated in 12/8, sometimes in 6/8. They are played for a particular type of dance associated with the Southwest of Ireland (Counties Cork and Kerry). Played properly, they're quite fast. Played more slowly, they're easily mistaken for jigs. One way to get a better sense of each type of tune is to visit www.thesession.org and use the search tool to find and view examples of each type of tune from the extensive database. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Morse Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 My take: Sometimes it's hard to distinguish a hornpipe from a reel that's played on the slow side. Usually, but not always, hornpipes are played such that in pairs of eighth notes, the first one will be held longer than is indicated by strictly following the meter, and the second note will be shorter. Sometimes people notate hornpipes as having a "dotted" rhythm (i.e., pairs in which the first note is a dotted eighth and the second is a sixteenth), but, strictly speaking, that notation exaggerates the rhythm. Hornpipes also make heavy use of triplets, and the two parts of the tune (the "A" and "B" parts) customarily end with three strong beats. Horpipes also tend to have a very distinctive chord sequence, have a significantly greater note range, have second parts that often start out in a different key than the first, and typically end with the last bars' notes being tonic, third, tonic (the hornpipe end-step). Even though the topic here is IRISH hornpipes, New England hornpipes (and Irish hornpipes played in NE) are generally played as reels (more smoothly and at speed) yet are easily recognised by the properties noted above. President Garfield's HP, Forester's HP, Fisher's HP, Lamplighter's HP, Quindaro, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Stallard Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Ahh yes, I forgot the obvious fact that hornpipes are usually syncopated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Well that's as clear as mud to me! Maybe I should stick to simpler things, like eradicating world poverty. For what its worth, I try to listen "blind" to music, have a wildly inaccurate guess as to which type of tune it is, and then look at the c.d. notes to see if I'm right. Sometimes I get it right. However ......! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 (edited) Well I'd suggest some more listening. Try to choose a few jigs, and a few reels and see if you can spot the differences between them and the similarity within each type. Jigs generally go did-i-ly did-i-ly or Liverpool-Manchester (two lots of 3 syllables) reels generally go did-i-did-i did-i-did-i or Peterborough-Peterborough (2 lots of 4 sylables - sorry I can't thing of another 4 syllable town!) Once youve been able to hear the differences between those two then you are ready to spot the more subtle differences for example between Irish reels and Irish hornpipes. Edited January 28, 2006 by Theo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted January 28, 2006 Author Share Posted January 28, 2006 reels generally go did-i-did-i did-i-did-i or Peterborough-Peterborough (2 lots of 4 sylables - sorry I can't thing of another 4 syllable town!) Hmmm. What about Copenhagen-Copenhagen ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 reels generally go did-i-did-i did-i-did-i or Peterborough-Peterborough (2 lots of 4 sylables - sorry I can't thing of another 4 syllable town!)Hmmm. What about Copenhagen-Copenhagen ? Exactly my thought, but you got to it first. Well, what about Peterborough-Edinburgh (pronounced Edin-burra)? And isn't there also a Middleborough? (There are plenty of 4-syllable names in America, but they all seem to have the main stress on the 3rd syllable, e.g., San Francisco, Kansas City, Mississippi.) When we meet, I can give you a few examples of each, so you can learn from listening. I can also go into more detail if you like, e.g., differences in style and tempo for different dance styles and among different regions. Even outside Irish... kopanitsa, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Well I'd suggest some more listening. Try to choose a few jigs, and a few reels and see if you can spot the differences between them and the similarity within each type. Jigs generally go did-i-ly did-i-ly or Liverpool-Manchester (two lots of 3 syllables) reels generally go did-i-did-i did-i-did-i or Peterborough-Peterborough (2 lots of 4 sylables - sorry I can't thing of another 4 syllable town!) Once youve been able to hear the differences between those two then you are ready to spot the more subtle differences for example between Irish reels and Irish hornpipes. Thanks for the advice. I'd have to change to Liverpool-Everton for the jigs though. Having to mention Manchester would spoil the pleasure of the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 (edited) Thanks for the advice. I'd have to change to Liverpool-Everton for the jigs though. Having to mention Manchester would spoil the pleasure of the music. Wonderfull things mnemonics! You seem to understand the jig now. I did think of Edinburgh and Middlesborough but decided that they may have been a bit of a pronunciation challenge for non-natives, and I did not know where Nigel hailed from. Copenhagen is a good one for a reel, as long as you rid your mind of the song "Wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen" which is in waltz time. Edited January 29, 2006 by Theo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Copenhagen is a good one for a reel, as long as you rid your mind of the song "Wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen" which is in waltz time. Copenhagen is wonderful, no matter what you're dancing. Here's another one for the reels: Ponca City, Oklahoma (it's a real/reel place) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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